Springpole

[skip11]

I've read several threads here regarding the use of springpole in a keep or just general exercise. Many people don't like using it in a keep but ok just for general exercise when not in a keep. Just wondering why is it bad in a keep? Imo, other than the jenny while working a hide and with a counter weight, the springpole is the closest exercise that mimics the actual work. I understand if you don't want to do mouth work 1-3 weeks before the end of the keep but why against the springpole for a keep in general? If you keep all 4 feet or just the back feet on the ground, isn't it one of the best exercise you can do?

[S_B]

The spring pole is a great tool for conditioning. But I'd say as far as in a keep one that should be used very carefully. Early on if you keep your feet on the ground and let the dog mouth it, it is good for wind sprints.

As the dog gets more in shape it will be hard to be faster than the dog, the dog is very enthusiastic and could injure itself which would defeat your purpose. Also if the dog gets the hide, you'll be needing a tool to remove him from it, risking mouth injury.

So early on yes, as the keep advances no imo.

S_B

[BLADE]

S_B your comment is a bit confusing.. it seems your confusing spring pole work with flirt work?

[S_B]

S_B your comment is a bit confusing.. it seems your confusing spring pole work with flirt work?

My bad lol I did get ahead of myself there didn't I. Thanks for correcting me Blade.

I like spring pole work, but like flirt would discontinue in the later stages of conditioning to avoid mouth injury.

S_B

[EWO]

I use both til late in the keep. I make sure all four feet are on the ground and the pull is on a level plane. From the base of the tree vs. from up the trunk or from a limb/branch. I like to see the dog pull straight back and basically crunch his 'abs/abdomen' with each tug. The shaking back and forth is OK and of the dog lean toward that I ease up/lessen the time. If he is a pull and snatch backwards hide worker then I add it a little more.

The flirt pole is a main stay. My best efforts with it was once when I had an open chain link pen, maybe 40X50. I could let the dog run loose. I had a long fiber glass rod like the ones with a little flag on the back of a kids bike. It was like 12' or so. I put the hide on the end and I could stretch the dog out in 30' plus sprints, change of direction and sprint the other way.

I used it all the way thru.

EWO

[skip11]

I use both til late in the keep. I make sure all four feet are on the ground and the pull is on a level plane. From the base of the tree vs. from up the trunk or from a limb/branch. I like to see the dog pull straight back and basically crunch his 'abs/abdomen' with each tug. The shaking back and forth is OK and of the dog lean toward that I ease up/lessen the time. If he is a pull and snatch backwards hide worker then I add it a little more.

The flirt pole is a main stay. My best efforts with it was once when I had an open chain link pen, maybe 40X50. I could let the dog run loose. I had a long fiber glass rod like the ones with a little flag on the back of a kids bike. It was like 12' or so. I put the hide on the end and I could stretch the dog out in 30' plus sprints, change of direction and sprint the other way.

I used it all the way thru.

EWO

Wouldn't it better to have the front feet just barely off the ground to mimic if he's getting pushed back in the actual show and having to maintain a hold? He'll still crunch because it's low enough that he's not necessarily hanging off the ground.

I've read an interview with Ozzie Stevens in SDJ August 2010 that flirtpole was his secret for conditioning. He started with 25 jumps and ended up with 900 jumps in a day (450 in the morning, 450 at night). Not sure if he's telling the truth but that's an awful lots of jump.

[EWO]

I always question the amount of jumps too. But who am I? LOL

I like the feet on the ground. I have seen it done a ton of different ways. I like to see his front legs push against the ground, digging in while he tugs on the hide.

The flirt pole is/can be as effective as any tool in the shed. I am a big fan. For me, the hardest part is getting the most out of it. Putting the dog on a chain or cable run takes a little away from it. When I had the pen open I could let the dog go in any and every direction. I did not have to worry about him going after another dog or a squirrel/rabbit that happened to wander by. I could send him in circles, across the pen, changing direction, stops and starts.

On the chain and the cable runs works as well but an open free run works better. I wish I had not filled that pen back up.

EWO

[skip11]

I agree, flirtpole should be used w/ the dog off leash to gain the most benefit. S_B also has good points in stopping the flirtpole in the later stages of the keep, but I guess that also depends on the dog (how hard he goes, how you use the flirtpole, etc.). Also do you guys think dog that doesn't bite hard on the springpole (because he's not that interested or whatever reason) is a soft mouth dog in the real hunt, or is it a totally different thing?

[EWO]

Could be the same and at the same time have absolutely no connection.

Some dogs bite because they want to, and in turn they can bite when they want and bite what they want. There is a male out side right now that will grab onto the 1" cotton rope and fight it til he nearly passes out. The negatives are the strands of cotton come off and he swallows them. I see some strings in his stool on occasion. I tried cow hides and he will not sniff it much less bite it. Without the cotton rope to work three or four times per day he starts in on the bowls, chains, rocks and roots. He is on the edge of being a hard keeper, actually on the edge leaning over looking down.

His littermate sister will bite anything that comes in her chain spot.

I worked a big male once that was really awesome on the flirt pole. He would chase it til no end. No interest in the spring pole. He would not bite it at all. On the flirt pole he would chase it forever, and when he occasionally caught the hide. He would put it on the ground and push it with his foot to make it move again. Game on from there.

And after all that babbling. Every dog is different.

EWO

I agree, flirtpole should be used w/ the dog off leash to gain the most benefit. S_B also has good points in stopping the flirtpole in the later stages of the keep, but I guess that also depends on the dog (how hard he goes, how you use the flirtpole, etc.). Also do you guys think dog that doesn't bite hard on the springpole (because he's not that interested or whatever reason) is a soft mouth dog in the real hunt, or is it a totally different thing?

[skip11]

Another question. Can a dog be a hard biter but has a shitty/ineffective hold? E.G. does a dog that can go 3 hours hanging on a springpole means he automatically has a hard bite or he can have a soft mouth but just determined enough to hold for a long time?