what makes a cur dog for u JACK? ...........and what signifies that of game ............i ask these questions because i personally have seen dogs stratch until they coundnt and still were labelled curs .........for some a dog must be dead game in order to be labelled game those are not my beliefs ........what are ur ideas on this topic ????? JACK
Great views from everyone, and I completely agree with Jack, the word "cur" (as well as the word "game.") are tossed around way too much, without any thought behind the meaning. Like these are the only two words that CAN be associated with our dogs. Reminds me of this quote. "Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end, we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that will ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten..... every year fewer and fewer words, and the range of consciousness always a little smaller." It applies not only to our dog community, but to society in general, sadly.
And why is it that people always put a time on gameness ?
What do you mean exactly?Originally Posted by lilpitgirl
game tested 30 minutes = game
going over the hour in pull = game
why? stupid... sry, uneducated right jack
I agree "proven gameness" isn't a function of time, per se, but yet I do believe a certain amount of time has to elapse before you can call a dog game.game tested 30 minutes = game
going over the hour in pull = game
why? stupid... sry, uneducated right jack
For example, I rolled Stormbringer with Gusto back in 1999, and Stormy was on a down dog within fifty seconds, immediately shot deep in the windpipe, and by 0:02 (yes, TWO minutes) I had to get Stormy out of there as he was choking Gusto TF out. The Gusto dog would literally have been DEAD in less than five minutes. I tried them again, and it was the same thing all over again. Gusto was kind of a scrawny dog, whereas Stormbinger had the most awesome body strength of any dog I have ever seen, and when you put the two together it was just an utter blowout.
Now, when separated, Gusto screamed and screamed and screamed for more ... but could I really call him "game" because he was still going berserk after a 0:02 roll ... even though I don't think he would have lived much longer than that?
Interestingly, Gusto later won GIS in :44 over a son of Eliiot's Six Bits, and then he lost DG in 1:58 to Roadblock (winning another GIS), so in point of fact the dog was a proven DG dog ... but to call him as such over his getting steamrolled by Stormbringer would have been a joke.
So, yes, SOME amount of time has to pass for a dog to properly be called game ... which will have to be enough time to show 1) a certain amount of fatigue, 2) a certain amount of abuse, and 3) a certain amount of time being continuously dominated. Another example, I put Icon with U-Nhan-Rha, and both dogs went a fast-paced 1:10 off the chain with each other ... but I really don't think either dog was game-tested here either. Why? Because they both had GREAT natural stamina and, though fairly tired by that point, neither dog was really all that tired. They were simply two PROFESSIONAL MACHINES, and so I stopped it because I had seen all I needed to see to rate these dogs as having World Class Ability and Stamina ... but (even though they went over an hour) I cannot properly say they were "tested hard." By contrast, I have picked up short-winded dogs in :25 - :30, and declared them "pretty game," because they were so freakin' tired that they were at the point of heat stroke ... and were spotting weight and behind the whole time, trying as fiercely and hard as they could, but just couldn't do anything besides lose and get dominated the whole way.
So, no, time doesn't necessarily prove a dog's game ... but, yes, enough time has to elapse to where the dog gets beaten, dead-ass-tired, and dominated the whole way (without a bad move) before you can call a dog game. A still-fresh dog, no matter how injured, cannot be called "game" ... whether he went an hour or just because he got shipwrecked and "still acted good." A certain amount of utter fatigue must be present IMO.
Jack
i have to dissagree with a dog who quits on top being a cur because that dog was not acting cowardly because he had nothing to fear to me a dog like thaat lacks the desire to finish not the will to win, because in his mind he already won, he sees no need to scratch because he kicked that dogs ass already
Mmmm, I would have to see the dog to agree/disagree with you.
Plenty of athletic dogs will shit all over themselves to a game dog they can "physically overpower," but who nonetheless is so game they keep scrambling after the more talented dog's ass.
In other words, just because a dog is "winning" doesn't mean he WON ... he is just winning "for now" ... and plenty of dogs, the moment they get tired, start to panic if they're in there against a game dog that can breathe ... precisely because the more talented dog senses he won't be able to stay ahead much longer.
So it all depends on the circumstances ... and I personally wouldn't want anything to do with any dog who would "stop scratching" while he knows he has an opponent in the corner ... seeing as, in Cajun Rules, scratching is the name of the game.
Jack
Edit: I would also like to add that the desire to finish (meaning to hit true kill spots), and the desire to "keep fighting" (meaning to continue to attack the other dog, even if it's only to shake a leg or a shoulder) are not the same thing ... and a dog who lacks the desire to "keep fighting" a dog he's whipping can hardly be called a game dog IMO.
I have seen dead game dogs gone under ten minutes. It's not the time, but the punishment they withstand during that time. Someone I know have a Nasty Nasty bitch who is on the bigger side. He puts his smaller females on her for ten mins, if they can handle that he considered them game enough.
I personally would find it hard to call a dog "dead game" who got snuffed in under :10. I would just say the dog got killed.
While I understand there are no clear-cut definitions, time-wise, as to "how long" a dog has to go before he can be called "game" ... in my mind a "game test" presupposes a certain amount of weariness and sustained abuse. In other words, there has to be a certain amount of fatigue that plays into it also, on top of a certain amount of sustained domination and constant abuse. A dog that gets killed in :10 is basically a fresh dog (fatigue-wise); he just got quickly murdered (injury-wise).
I would feel comfortable saying, "The dog got killed and never made a bad move," but I personally wouldn't say he showed "dead game" ... as ten minutes is a joke time frame IMO.
For example, four times Silverback has had dogs stretched-out getting killed in the throat in under :10, and on each case (when SB was pried out) the other dogs, after flopping-around and getting their air back, all "wanted more" ... but I sure as hell wouldn't call anything they did even remotely close to a "game test."
The truth is, these dog were choked TF out by Silverback while still fresh, and they simply would have been "dead dogs" had I not pried The Gorilla out of their throats. But they were not even remotely "game tested" by what happened ... they just would have been killed in the throat very quickly.
Jack
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