greatest producer of all time

[bad dog]

ok it took me a minute to figure out how to post a poll (lol) but who do you consider the greatest producer of all time?

[Officially Retired]

My initial reaction was to say Yellow, but I would have to say Buck, because his owner didn't have the yard space that the owners of Yellow did (or Bolio/Eli/Frisco for that matter). The owner of Buck didn't really try to build a bloodline around the dog either, the Buck bloodlines that exist today were essentially created by first- or second-hand customers, and yet Buck compares favorably to these other dogs, despite nowhere near the volume of breedings/effort made.

It would be staggering to imagine the amount of great Buck dogs there would be, if his owner had 100 like-bred bitches to breed to him, and build a bloodline around, as did Yellow's owner (Bolio's owner), etc.

Jack

[Norm87]

I definitely agree with most of what you said about Buck other than him being bred less than the other choices as Eli was bred far less than any of them including Buck. As far as which was the best producer out of them it will depend on whether where going by percentage of quality individuals produced or overall impact on the breed as a whole whole. If going by the latter I’d say Eli no question due to the amount of lines/families that were built off the Eli/Boudreaux family of dogs

[R2L]

depends on what you mean. direct offspring or speaking of the line.

Jumbo is one of europe's best producers

http://www.apbtpedigrees.com/printpe...?recordID=3697

[Officially Retired]

Looks like a helluva producer.

[bad dog]

buck was great but remember most of his champions had yellow in them

[No Quarter Kennel]

How do we factor in production percentage? Myself, I would take a dog who bred 3-5 times and produced 3 champs compared to a dog bred 25 times and produced 5 champs.

What about these dogs? Who are some of the higher percentage producing dogs?

Hammonds' Rufus dog was bred 17 or 18 times in a span of only 2 years of his life. He produced 13 Champions and 2 ROM dogs. Looking at averages, he averages almost a Champion per breeding.

I'm not as versed in other lines and production of key animals in those lines, but in terms of propensity, RUFUS ROM has to be one of the better producing dogs of all-time.

What other dogs fit this category?

[Officially Retired]

How do we factor in production percentage? Myself, I would take a dog who bred 3-5 times and produced 3 champs compared to a dog bred 25 times and produced 5 champs.

You have to have a real working knowledge of the dog, the line, and what it's produced overall to be able to answer that for yourself.

I agree with the premise, however, namely that I would rather breed to the former dog than the latter.

H
What about these dogs? Who are some of the higher percentage producing dogs?
Hammonds' Rufus dog was bred 17 or 18 times in a span of only 2 years of his life. He produced 13 Champions and 2 ROM dogs. Looking at averages, he averages almost a Champion per breeding.
I'm not as versed in other lines and production of key animals in those lines, but in terms of propensity, RUFUS ROM has to be one of the better producing dogs of all-time.
What other dogs fit this category?

I agree with you, quality-wise (and dog-for-dog produced), but I still don't think such a dog could be considered and "all time great" producer, if its overall influence to the game is small. For example Ch Mr. Serious from me produced 2 Grand Champions, a 4xW, and a few 1- and 2x winners, without a single loss, from just a handful of breedings, amassing at least a 17-0 record before he died in the prime of his life. Yet, though I think dog-for-dog-produced, Ch Mr. Serious is as good or better stud as any dog that ever lived, I still don't believe he is an all-time-great stud dog, because he just didn't get the chance to have an overall impact on the sport.

Regarding Rufus ROM, I didn't know he sired so many Champions, but if that is true he certainly is an exceptional stud dog, but here again I am not sure he had the same overall influence as a Jeep or Buck or Yellow, etc.

But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a better bet to breed to

Jack

[No Quarter Kennel]

As always, elegantly put. I agree with your sentiments as well.

There are many intangibles to consider as well. Many dogs of previous generations were privy to great dogmen and a complete different set of rules. Some dogs were bred exclusively to good quality bitches, proven from great dogmen who truly knew the stock which was bred.

A great number of factors are to be considered when discussing the great producers of this breed.....no doubt.

[bolero]

your missing a hell of a lot of great producers on that list. percentage wise a lot of those dogs were not good producers and on that list eli prob had the best percents as he was bred the least out of those dogs jeep had the balls bred off of him and so did frisco, and yellow like jack said buck could arguably be better as he was not bred much either.