Raw Feeding Fact or Myth?

[Jon P. Lebron]

I've had dogs that where fed only kibble and thay lived up to 12-13 years. I've had dogs fed only on scraps and they lived up to 12-13 years. I've had dogs fed on both kibble and table scraps who also lived up to 12-13 years. As a matter of fact my dad has a Pit I left with him when I moved to the states that is going to be 12 years old and she has been fed kibble and table scraps all her life. So from my experience I can say that a dog can live to an old age on kibble or table scraps.

Right now I am feeding my dog raw, this is the first time I have ever fed a dog only raw, he is 10 months ,so I can't say anything about the benefits about feeding raw in the long run. What I can say is that I have never had a dog with such a healthy, shiny and smooth coat I mean ever. Every other dog I have owned has had a good looking coat but not as smooth or shiny and if I'm not mistaken a dogs coat has to do a lot with it's health. All the other dogs that I have owned, their coats where harsh and dry, some will say your dog is still young but thats the thing I have been feeding him raw only for a few weeks and before that it was only kibble and now his coat is way better than a few weeks ago and none of the other dogs I have owned have had a coat so healthy at this same age.

Another thing is the dogs that where fed only kibble and scraps had bad farting issues and their stool stank and they where big pasty stools, even my current dog had this issues yet in this few weeks of feeding only raw, this issues have gone completely, I mean he does not fart at all and his stool is small and hard, also his water consumption is way less.

This to me is an indication of better nutrition, you see when I moved to the states I was 220 pounds and I am only 5'6", the reason for this bad nutrition fast food and junk food. I started to loose weight and got involved in MMA, I started to eat right lots of veggies, fruits and lean meats, I ate my veggies raw not even steamed, the first thing I noticed, I went to the restroom way less and my stool was firm and smaller, compared to when I was eating all that junk food my stool was the same as a dogs when fed only kibble, also I hardly farted when I was eating correct, this might be grouse but from a personal experience I can say that raw seems to be way better than kibble, but as I said before I have had dogs live to an old age fed only on kibble, so if a dog dies at 8 or 9 years of age be it that it was fed only raw or only kibble it doesn't mean that, that was the reason it died so young.

So if my stool was pasty and stank when I was eating junk food and it didn't when I was eating correct and a dogs stool is pasty and stinks when fed only kibble but it doesn't when fed only raw, I have to say that feeding kibble is the equivalent of a human eating junk food, while feeding raw is the equivalent of a human eating correctly.

Also it is possible to get meats from animals that have no hormones, preservatives or antibiotics in them (this where the type of meats I use to eat) just go to a Health Food Store, yes they cost a lot and it would be to much for a person who has 10-20 dogs, fuck it even cost a lot for people who only have one or two dogs. Yes the meats at a,regular supermarket have many thing in them, but I ask don't we eat this meats so whats the big problem with feeding your dog this meats, if we eat them, heck even cooking this meats doesn't take away all of the stuff thats in them. So I don't see any problem with feeding dogs this meats.

R2L why don't you feed that dog only kibble for a month and work him out to see if he doesn't get hot as quickly.

Jon

[Limey Kennels]

Ok Jack .
Bacteria in infected meat thus not only live on the outside!!. many many people(including dogs and yes theye system is way stronger then ours is) have died of not properly kookt ore baket meats sours!!.
iventho the meat LOOKT to be kookt true and true on the inside . hens kooking it very wel is the only way to disreguard the bactiria anti biotics hormons. Another point where proove is shown where OUR gut bacteria hase been distroid is the ALARMING increased nrs of colan and stomage CANSER umongst man. due to al the added antibiotics hormons and as you could read in the text above arcenic in meat and chicken... MIND you GOOD healty proper meat will not give you canser its the fricking Bio industry that thuse that!!..
have you even used Yakult!!. if so then you most defenaty notised the good solid diguested stool a day ore two later that come out of you. Thats due to the 6.5 billion good gut bacteria from 1 little bottle to help diguest and break douwn the right nutrition needed for our bodies.. this to is proof we have a problem with antibiotics EVEN in our KOOKt meat not to mention in raw meat..,, as all the good gut bacteria is killed of .

Jack if you belive you could can buy bio industrie free chicken everywhere for everybody you wil find out that its not ez not to mention the ecspense ...
and please do NOT belive what they claim on the etikets ,where they say it is, they are ALWAYS 3 stept behind on what they CLAIM the product is, and make you belive is healthy meat ore chicken for that matter .

IF the same amound of chickens that are normally kenneld/ boxst up and stackt on top of eachother been put im those major big barns then they alredy called them free roaming chickes!!!!!. but sins there are no chicken wirere cages are in between them and they are not stackt on top of eathoder its bij law alouwd to call them free roaming. its still the same crap animal being fed the same shit. bisenis is bisenis. been involved to mutch in the meat industrie myself to know that.
altho i like my meat, i sure as hell try to use it as little as posible and kook the crap out of it. ore buy the good stuff from time to time.
Do you even remember how a real live free roaming chicken tasts like wich we got 40 years ago,??? .

insted we get those silly putty white gentic manipulated white meat they claim is chicken meat!!??.
where those chickens produce nearly1 1/2 to 2 lbs of chicken brests within 6 weeks.........feeding the waist of other animals who on there own are pumpt full with crap... i seen your videos where the costs are laid out . no way in hell you get and feed the right stuff to feed you dogs, bij cutting costs down.

Again its good when you get the REAL proper meat diet,and only for on the chain.but iven getting the right stuf is a tall order for you to do so..
and cost will rize above your head in sutch a way it isend iven funny anymore..

and to awnser your question about adding amino acids later on with kibbel hell being better. then hell yes its beter il get the protien less antibiots les hormons lees amino acids . if i ad the aminio acids i get everyting in THAT departmend that i need.. but thats personal and out of my own ecsperiense...


Tasoschats................ i cant convert now one i can mearly show the oposit side of wat is called the raw feeding health myth ... people make up there own minds .and as soon as they made there mind up . there is nothing i ore anybody els can do about it. my gospel against it, is like trying to cell canser nobody of the raw meat guys buys it..
Bij the way I like to see some wel conditiond raw meat dogs bij the way ... just to keep it in all good spirits..


Jon P lebron............. its very good to here you where able to change your life around!!. not alot of people are able to do that!!. respect im sure it wassend ez. right now im on a raw veggy mediteraniam diet myself..
I was kinda reddy to ask if people would ore could put a pickture up ona chiney healty raw fed dog . as i alredy ecsplained that its the amino asids in combination with antibiotics that thuse that . and it gives you a ""part"" fals sense of healht.
you are 100% right that you can read a great part of the health on a dog bij his looks. 3 features wil show you that from the get go shiny bricht eyes/ clear shiny coats and wet nozes . And indeed stool!.
Lets see some of these dogs.. and il show you a dog that was on raw meat and whent back to what we advised..
and il show you the rightway of feeding a dog kibble the weight of it and the weight of the waist/stool that comes out of the dog..

[R2L]

Are these the amino acids you add yourself? http://www.greenriverworkingdogsupplies.nl/health-tonic

It says 15 ml once or twice a day for 1 adult dog. lets say 50-60 days for a 1 liter 33 euro bottle. Costs you 100 euro a month for 5 dogs. Not what i call cheap feeding.

[tasoschatz]

Limey, I have no intention to convert anybody, I just try through my writing to create opportunities for my self to gather more info, then it is up to me and my, whatever it is, education backround to evaluate this info and use it or not. This is why I put my thoughts like this, if I was to support my prefference on raw feeding I would use different kind of writing, I just preffer to offer you some "bait" to try to gather what I need to take your views more seriously and judge them as such. If I ask and you answer, I will always have a chance to get some knowledge, if I only talk then there is a strong chance I will make an ass of my self. You see, you are an old dogman and known in the circles, so, although I have a feeling that 99% of the members in here disagree with you, you get answers in a respectfull way. I feel if I was posting a thread with views like yours, I would get different attitude.

[Limey Kennels]

R2L those are greyhound dosses for dogs in the 35 kilo/ 77 lbs range. and if a state of peak health has been reached 1/3 of the dose is suffisiend. for bulldogs 1 table/soup spoon is more then enoughf and later 1 tea spoon!!. And it thuse its job on crap food to!... its not meant(altho you can use it) for dogs that are perfectly healthy on the chain. Its ment for pregnand biches dogs that do sufferfrom skin/ coat problems. and ore dogs that are in training/ keep. a 5 to 7 ml per dog is more then enoughf... Tasochatz if i gave you the wrong impression that my words where ment for you trying to convert anybody then i can only bliam my spelling and wrong chooice of words as i was talking about myself.. if 99% of the people disagree with me then that is fine. however i hope that time wil prove them otherwize.
Anyway lets see them fantastick looking conditioned raw meat dogs!!.. take it away..

[SGC]

Lots of interesting info on this thread.…

I did not know about the arsenic fed to chickens, and thus going down all thru the food chain even to the point of the beef cattle feed the chicken poop full of arsenic resulting in arsenic in beef too. Seems no grocery store meats are safe these days.

There is also a connection between the antibiotics in grocery store chicken and human bladder infections, here are a few links –

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1112914

http://grist.org/news/researchers-fi...y-antibiotics/

http://grist.org/factory-farms/final...and-superbugs/

It also says that 80% of the antibiotics in the US are used in livestock. No wonder the Japanese banned the import of US beef.

Does anyone have info on if cooking this meat removes some of the antibiotics/hormones? I would not think that would take out arsenic but does it remove some of the other stuff?

But if chicken is causing bladder infections in people, certainly they are not eating raw chicken so I guess that answers my question…

So if you are feeding grocery store chicken to your dogs, how bad is it? And how different from this chicken is the chicken used in quality kibble and in pre-made raw such as the Nature’s Variety raw patties?

I have switched to eating supposedly (if you can trust the labels!) hormone free antibiotic free chicken these days and I am wondering if I should buy it for dog food too? I can get these chicken quarters for about $1.79 to $2 a pound… so not much different than quality kibble and less than pre-made raw.

[FrostyPaws]

This whole thing about arsenic is kinda funny. Arsenic is found in drinking water, in lots of vegetables, in the environment. So while the presence of arsenic in chicken could be alarming, there are not lethal doses of arsenic in chicken. If it were, folks would be falling over dead. They're not. Even if your dog is NOT getting raw chicken, it's still getting arsenic every day of it's life from drinking water. There are higher levels of arsenic in WELL water than it is city water, so if your grandparents or even you are on well water, you're drinking more arsenic water. Arsenic is used in oil products, so anytime you're around your car, or anyone else's car that's idling, you're inhaling arsenic particles. Is arsenic a carcinogen? Yes, and you are exposed to everyday whether you want to be or not. So are all of our dogs.

If a person is concerned with a lack of vitamins/minerals, feed vegetables with the diet. In one serving size of chicken, usually 4oz, there is 6% iron. In red meat, I think the number is 10% or it exceeds it. There are plenty of other sources of dietary iron to take the place of what's lacked in chicken. There are so many ways to feed a raw diet that differs everyday to cover all the bases by simply adding vegetables or fruits with the diet.

There's a reason why a dog, that's fed a raw diet, as opposed to a kibble diet, has less stool. It's because the dog is utilizing more of the product for actual energy. Excess waste is exactly that, waste. It's product not being absorbed by the body, whether human or dog. The old timers weren't gods of composing a raw meat diet. If they were, there wouldn't have been a quantum leap forward in performance. They were men who fed the dogs what they had available. Availability and raw diet are not created equally. Kibble is convenient food for us and the dog. Convenience doesn't equate to better. The same old timers thought, and some still do, that combiotic was the best antibiotic ever created. They believe you should cut off any type of supplementation at least 7 days before the match or they will make the dog run hot. They also thought that dogs that fought for the stifle were curs due to them going away from where the action is happening. With time comes knowledge. The knowledge on nutrition today is light years ahead of what old timers new ten years ago much less 40+ years ago.


I'm not sure how dogs that are fed a raw diet can't really handle pressure when it's put on them. That makes absolutely no sense. There are people everywhere that compete with dogs fed a raw diet that handle whatever pressure comes their way. Some win, some lose, some die. It's the exact same of dogs being fed kibble. If a person doesn't have a handle on what it takes to feed a raw diet for competition that our dogs are built for, they shouldn't be feeding. That has less to do with handling pressure and more to do with knowledge deficit. The same can be said for someone feeding kibble that has no idea on what it takes. The comparison of greyhounds and bulldogs doesn't make sense for me. Greyhounds need a higher carb diet as they're running a sprint. Dogs that are being conditioned for any type of endurance/stamina event will need higher fat, then protein, then carbs. That is why people use oils and fatty meat or fat from a butcher. It's a more calorie dense diet which is what's needed in regards to dog endurance.

I fed kibble to a yard of dogs for many years. I didn't have a lot of health related issues with the dogs aside from a few here and there that didn't react well to the food. Most of the time, I could switch that dog's particular food to something else, and the trouble would be alleviated. I've had other issues when feeding kibble in regards to skin issues, and when some enzymes were added to the food, the skin issues resolved themselves. The dog's system couldn't process something in the food, and enzyme supplementation was needed. I don't have any of those issues with the raw diet. I have a lot healthier dogs than I did before. They look better; they feel better. The older dogs are more active now. I've had other issues resolve themselves simply by not feeding kibble any longer. The dogs that get worked look as they should on the chain, and they perform as they should when it's called upon them to do so. This topic will always have people that believe in kibble over raw and vice versa. We can only go with our own experiences and/or the research that some of us have done that can/does support our beliefs, whether right or wrong.

[Limey Kennels]

I gues everyting that needed to be said has been said in most posts, wel kind of. repeating ourselfs is sensless . i belive people have enoughf to think about and do some google sirches, to find out..
like i said earlyer
there are always 2 sides to a story . thought i show that feeding raw isend as healty as people think ore claim it is.... Now please show of raw fed conditiond dogs..

[Jon P. Lebron]

LK I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but what is the right way of feeding kibble? As I said before I have had dogs fed on kibble and they lived a long life, I just have noticed many good thing from a raw feed.

[inkdogg]

Any of u guys PERSONALLY know of anyone who has any kind of sickness due to eating hormone fed meat...