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Thread: DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT .

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxman View Post
    An example of pedigrees is as follows. My wife and I were both raised in Oklahoma. Both sides of our family tree traced her and I both back to two different indian tribes. It is 5 generation on her 6 on me. We decided to send in our Dna to this place that has all the tribes markers for DNA on file. I do not remember the cost but I think it was $300 each. It came back with no indian in our family tree. We were both 100% European. When I told my family they all laughed and didn't get excited about the error. My wife's family was different. They got mad and called us liers and said that place was wrong. Why don't a bunch of you guys get together and see. There is a place that it can be sorted out at. If two people have the two bloodlines and have kept them faily pure. You can see if their connected. One side will be mad the other will say it is a lie. Just warning ahead of time. All those stories may be a lie some may be true. I personally do not care what anyone believes. Mayfield or Boudreaux didn't have a monopoly on all the good dogs. There were good ones all over the place. Boudreaux and his friends beat Mayfield Twice. Did you guys know that? I was at one of the fights. Mayfield was one of the greatest conditioners back then. Did any of you ever wonder why Mayfield would send Pit General to Wimberly to condition. That is the biggest money fight and the most important fight. Yet Mayfield said he had to condition a bitch. Which was for less money and wasn't a big deal. I had a man who was a friend of Mayfield's call me ahead of the Pit General fight and He said. Bet everything you can the fix is on. Now don't go telling people I said the fix is on. I'm not saying the fix is on. I'm just saying I got a call. I decided not to even go after I got that tip. I like it when both sides have an chance. Just in case that was true and it might not be. Randy Fox
    Randy i dont know why you dont want to say much about the bind billy dog and i understand you have a side to take and i said that no one can be sure about some dogs like tombstone, but i looked at what evidence there is ,and of course the audio tapes which also give you an insight but its all about opinions , and even with tombstone your say with conviction that gina was on maloneys yard and that there were no pure tudor bitches like baby there , but maybe they were , but who knows if gina was or wasnt , but when weighing up the evidence , and that includes the audio tapes i came to the conclusion that it was more likely that baby was the dam, but anything is possible.But today i listenend to the audio again and i had forgotten who
    the man was that was supposed to have had gina on his yard when gina was supposed to be on maloneys yard but i can now tell you that it was bob wallace, and the man who told mayfield this on the audio was the man who campiagned grch 35 for most of his fights put up the forefits and conditioned the dog(no not rushin bill) this man also ,had involement in little bear and sweet pea and was from arkansa and bob was his friend and had told him about gina being on his yard at the time.Mayfield had never heard that before and tells this man that if bob wallace said that then he would believe it, as he would beilive just about anything bob had to say about anything like that , and if bob said something like that he would be confident it was true.Now randy you may be right, but when it comes to blind billy , theres no doubt, but you seem to avoid saying anything that might go against floyd ,but i dont think i have ever seen a post of yours either here or on any forum where you dont try to run mayfield down as you have done in your last post.
    RANDY not all of us dropped from the sky yesterday , so to say things like mayfield had wimberly conditon pit general ,and trying
    to somehow make it seem like he couldnt condition dogs so he had to have other people condition for him , when you know that don had many people help him condition his dogs, including wimberly and others, and he taught many of them how to condition dogs, but folks seem to forget that dont they randy, and the reason he had guys like wimberly help him condition his dogs , was becasue it was his full time work , mayfield had left the day job he had at a hotel in dallas and dog fighting was his income and don himslef tells about how he would work dogs around the clock with guys like wimberely and others when he had many dogs being conditioned at the same time, so nice try randy better luck next time with the smear job.

    Now for sneaky dig number 2 , you say how floyd beat don 2 times and then say I BET YOU DIDNT KNOW THAT , as if mayfield losing a match was a state secret or that don never admitted losing a match when he did , and again don himself talks about his wins and his losses ,hell he lost to stinson and glover and others , so what its no secret randy , his record is out there and its not a perfect one but a darn sight better than most hell maybe even better than yours randy .

    Randy you can hate all you like , you have been doing it for years to don, yet you stick up for a known sneak like maloney and just about the world and his brother can see that floyd lied about billy and eli but your avoiding the answer,which aint very game of you is it randy .

    Sneaky dig no 3 saying there was a fix in with pit general, ok now i know of a fix in the bullyson sir match but if their was a fix in in favour of general , then you can only be talking about the 2 fights he had , one against fitzwaters duke and freddie jones black bart.Now im not saying you never got a call sayng that , but it doesnt make sense in this instance, but maybe
    like many conversations we have , some folks want to make you think and do one think so they tell you another, and maybe if you were told that it was for a reason like that , but now im going to try and explain why a fix seems a riddiculous
    statement to make, and you couldnt have chosen a less believable story than that one randy if you tried.

    Now we have the beauty of hindsight as we all know about pit general and his fights , but in my expierience if i wanted to put a fix in for a sure thing, then i would firstly make sure that the dog i was matching into had already quit ,as the sir dog had already done a few times
    before he was matched against bullyson.Now the duke dog was a very well bred dog , and was never known before to quit or make any bad moves, and duke took his death never taking his eyes off pit general so even though mayfield hoped general would win just like purdue and fitzwater hoped duke might win , when any kind of fix is made your going to make sure a dog isnt game enough to take his death if your looking for a fix .OK now lets get onto possible fix n02
    and black bart v pit general, well this again could never have happened or been true , bart was a killing dog and had done just that in his two matches , and don wasnt sure just like against duke what the outcome would be , and bart was another well bred family dog , and he also took his death against general , so randy whether you ever did get a phone call
    or not , the talk of a fix is utter hogwash , and rather than come up with things like that , you must have realised that was hogwash , for the reasons i have just explained that you must also have realsied it, if not at the time of this supposed phone call , but certianly today all these years later knowing how the matches went and what dogs they were , but i like how you always finish by saying and it might be true or it might not, lol randy you like to smear without the meat and potatoes added to it , but i say to everyone use your common sense and your nose in life and you wont make to many mistakes and you generally see the bullshit from the truth as with that story.

  2. #52
    Randy Fox is Awesome!!!

    Projectx, I think Randy said more than once, he could care less about Blind Billy one way or the other. But you have raised interesting points. I would love to participate more, but I know nothing about Boudreaux, Blind Billy or Mayfield other than hearsay.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by S_B View Post
    Randy Fox is Awesome!!!

    Projectx, I think Randy said more than once, he could care less about Blind Billy one way or the other. But you have raised interesting points. I would love to participate more, but I know nothing about Boudreaux, Blind Billy or Mayfield other than hearsay.
    SB randy has said a lot, but not about where he stands , and to not care about the true breeding of one of the most important bloodlines in the history of this breed of dogs in the blind billy and eli line is not the sign of a man who cares about breeding in any way and quite frankly is a copout of an excuse ,probably said in order to not have to agree with mayfield or disagree with floyd.

    As for you wanting but not bieng able to participate more becasue you dont feel you dont know enough about any of this SB
    its ok, you dont need to know anything, this thread is about opinions, i have tried to put toggether as much information using written /audio and hearsay evidence and using what i call a common sense view to every theory from which i have made my own assuptions
    and which you can also make yours based on the eviidence and your own common sense or gut feeling as to were the truth may be in your opinion, so feel free to post your views on the dogs we have so far and any others that may pop up in this thread, merry christmas to you.

  4. #54
    I did not say I didn't like Don Mayfield. I liked him and his wife. Can you scan and post anywhere I said the words I did not like or I hated Mayfield? He was one of the greatest dogmen that ever lived. Yet in some areas he rambles. He claims that Boudreaux dogs are out of one of his bitches. On the other hand Mayfield calls they are all currs. Which way it is? Are they game dogs off Mayfield stuff or Curr dogs. I simply was trying to tell the truth as I saw it about breedings. Someone ask me to get on here and try to tell the truth. I told them 'no those people do not want the truth' but decided to do it anyway. I wish I'd never said anything. You guys will live on in your dream world. It seems to be the world for lots of dogmen to be happy in. If you really want to know the truth. Spend some money and see if the DNA's match on the bloodlines in question. No ones word that was there will change or prove anything to you guys. Except the ones you pick out to believe. But the DNA will. Get a bunch of guys together pay a DNA test facility to help. Then get your friends to help financially. That is if you can convince them this is a good cause. That way you will see if your dreams are right. I apologize for saying anything. Leave me out ot your bull.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxman View Post
    I did not say I didn't like Don Mayfield. I liked him and his wife. Can you scan and post anywhere I said the words I did not like or I hated Mayfield? He was one of the greatest dogmen that ever lived. Yet in some areas he rambles. He claims that Boudreaux dogs are out of one of his bitches. On the other hand Mayfield calls they are all currs. Which way it is? Are they game dogs off Mayfield stuff or Curr dogs. I simply was trying to tell the truth as I saw it about breedings. Someone ask me to get on here and try to tell the truth. I told them 'no those people do not want the truth' but decided to do it anyway. I wish I'd never said anything. You guys will live on in your dream world. It seems to be the world for lots of dogmen to be happy in. If you really want to know the truth. Spend some money and see if the DNA's match on the bloodlines in question. No ones word that was there will change or prove anything to you guys. Except the ones you pick out to believe. But the DNA will. Get a bunch of guys together pay a DNA test facility to help. Then get your friends to help financially. That is if you can convince them this is a good cause. That way you will see if your dreams are right. I apologize for saying anything. Leave me out ot your bull.
    Randy i enver said you hated mayfield , but its how you say things about him ,and you still have not said anything in your poststo add to this thread.I dont want you or anyone else to say what they dont believe in randy, but i offered up some evidence on why i believe don and many others believed that eli was out of crybaby and cotton, and that billy was not out of dibo, and eventhough i think that in these two dogs it seems as close to the truth as we can get to any of the dogs in the game that have had some disputed pedigrees over the years , and even floyds best friends and mayfields worst enemies would have to secretly agree that he was correct ,but you randy are sitting on the fence , unlike you normaly do
    when you have the opportunity to put mayifeld down ,then you are 100% certain about your views ,but in this one your as quiet as a church mouse.
    I think i know why you dont want to say anything about it,becasue if you say you believe floyd eventhough the eveidence is a damming as we can get , then you would look like a fool and taking flyds side , but if you agree ,which would be the only thing you really can do given the evidence , then you would be going against floyd , but randy if your going to come on here and blame others for not wanting the truth , well maybe you should start with some yourself , and instead of trying to throwing shit and hopeing it sticks , like you did in the post about the fix and wimberly , which i think i explianed to anyone who was dumb enough to actually believe your story why it couldnt have been true in generals case , and the other attempts at making mayfield look like he couldnt condtion so wimberly did it for him , which you knew why before my reply to your post, but thats ok randy so far your o for 2 so keep em coming , but you might want to either take a dump or get off the pot, so one last time do you believe floyd on blind billy and eli or mayfield and most inteligent thinking people who can see and accept the truth when they see it .

    Randy by the way what truth is it that you have deemed to tells us here? i agree your views about tombstone are as legit as anyone elses, but what truth have you told us about billy and eli ? you talk about DnA and stuff none of us have talked about or game dogs and curs dogs ,which again no one has talked about , when its a thread about disputed pedigres on famous dogs past and present , but someone is mistaken in the baby v gina dispute , now as maloney made the breeding , and you say you seen gina there at exactly the time tombstone was whelped so someone so someone must be mistaken right? So who is it randy you and don maloney the saint or bob wallace, just about the most honest man in the game , but hell you might be right randy anything possible, but on billy its not possible to say that , its black and white cut and dried so lets hear it randy whats your truth about that .

  6. #56
    randy stated before that if you weren't there you don't know for sure. I never seen him claim he was there when eli was bred or whelped. this is like an Obama birth certificate argument without proof its just your opinion. the only man that really knows is still alive has he ever been asked about the discrepancy in the dates?

  7. #57
    I wasn't there when any of Boudreaux' dogs were bred. I wasn't there when any of the dogs Boudreaux bought were bred. Is that plain enough for everyone. Why don't you ask my friend Bennett Clayton how they were bred. Or ask the reknown Clements 'who I do not know' but he may be able to tell you how they are bred 'Maybe'. I have never heard Floyd Boudreaux bad mouth Mayfield. I have heard Mayfield bad mouth Floyd Numerous times. I saw and heard someone tell Floyd abut Mayfield mouthing about him one time. Floyd said 'That is just Don'. He likes to do that sort of thing. I thought that was a pretty nice statement from a guy that should be mad. DNA will stand up in court but not hear-say. Like I said the truth is out there through DNA. Spend some money and find the truth or just believe the talk.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Gotta12v View Post
    randy stated before that if you weren't there you don't know for sure. I never seen him claim he was there when eli was bred or whelped. this is like an Obama birth certificate argument without proof its just your opinion. the only man that really knows is still alive has he ever been asked about the discrepancy in the dates?
    Hi gotta , i never said randy said he was there when eli was whelped , i was talking about what randy said about gina being on maloneys yard and he seen here there when tombstone was bred , and i said that either he or bob wallace msut be mistaken ,as bob wallace said that she was on his yard when gina was supposed to have been whelping tombstone.

    As for the dates for blind billy , i have said it a few times on this thread but here it is again.Floyd stated more than once and also in his interview exactly when and how he got blind billy and when he was born.Floyd tates that billy was born in 1952 and dibo was born march 21 1951 and tudor never got dibo untill 3 years old more or less so on floyds own version billy cant be out of dibo ,thats without all the other circumstantial evidence about crybaby , but on the dates alone its not possible .

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Foxman View Post
    I wasn't there when any of Boudreaux' dogs were bred. I wasn't there when any of the dogs Boudreaux bought were bred. Is that plain enough for everyone. Why don't you ask my friend Bennett Clayton how they were bred. Or ask the reknown Clements 'who I do not know' but he may be able to tell you how they are bred 'Maybe'. I have never heard Floyd Boudreaux bad mouth Mayfield. I have heard Mayfield bad mouth Floyd Numerous times. I saw and heard someone tell Floyd abut Mayfield mouthing about him one time. Floyd said 'That is just Don'. He likes to do that sort of thing. I thought that was a pretty nice statement from a guy that should be mad. DNA will stand up in court but not hear-say. Like I said the truth is out there through DNA. Spend some money and find the truth or just believe the talk.
    Randy i never said you were there when eli or any of floyds dogs were bred , i said that you claimed to have seen gina on maloneys yard at the time when she had tombstone ,and i said that either you and the saint don maloney or bob wallace who was known as one of the most honest men in the game are msitaken as bob said she was on his yard at the time gina was supposed to have whelped tombstone ,so please dont put words into my mouth.


    Once again you say how you never heard floyd badmouth mayfield but want to tell how you heard mayfield badmouth floyd.
    Well randy once again rather than answer a very simple question as to whether in your opinion based on the facts about
    blind billy and subsequently eli as one leads to the others true heritage , you would rahter throw up smoke screens and
    stay sitting on the pot .If floyd had screwed me over , you can bet every dollar you ever had i would be badmouthing him too
    if he had done that to me by claiming eli as his ,so maybe don had a good reason to badmouth floyd and anyone else who wanted to cover up the lies about what had been done to him, and you think floyd was being nice just saying that about don when it was his way of badmouthing don , and he knew better than that cos he knew don was telling the truth
    about eli and billy so you might fool some folks on here but your so obvious randy its unreal .

    Ok you made 3 posts , with only one statement about tombstone none about billy and eli or anyother dogs we talked about so far in this thread , but you made plenty of comments about mayfield and other stuff no one has asked or even mentioned except you , and as for DNA well i will make a call and find out what the chances are based on the scenario we have, which is a dog that was around over 40 years ago whos heritage has 2 possibilties one out of a known dog dibo and the other of unknown or only known to floyd , and as such the chances of them telling me yes no problem we can find out is remote but i will ask. But floyds own words tell us everything about billy and it tells us he aint out of dibo so eli aint out of billy ,so randy either tells us you believe old floyd or don and many others who can read and understand that it never happened , or show what level of truth you have your answer .

  10. #60
    Ditto Foxman. Well spoken. I found a simple way that solved my problem with some of those so called above issues. V. Jackson continued on with the Mayfield Sunshine/Snake/Coplin crosses. I bought the Carver-Creel bred dog formerly known as McNeil's Chuck. This dog was bought direct from M. Carver and I got to talk with the Creels about this dog. They confirmed I had the right dog.

    Next I got the Chandler's Face bitch that was a Boudreaux/Carver/Mayfield bred dog. Face was bred out of Dwight Hathaway's dogs and C. Middleton's in bred Holt's Jerimiah bitch. Middleton went down to Texas and bought this young Black Betty bitch directly from Raymond and Sharon Holt. Black Betty turned out to be a good producer. I never knew of Cecil ever even rolling Black Betty. If he did he kept it private. Middleton was a good dog man and breeder. Was a smart man and kept his business and dog activities out of John Q Public's eye and the dog magazines.

    I obtained a inbred Loposay's Buster x Lopasay's Beanie bitch through S. Shropshire that was owned by K. Powell. I got the C. Mim's Sally bitch from G. Cox. Sally was formerly a bitch owned by Duplechain who got his dogs from Roland Fontenot. Sally was a older bitch and off the Don Maloney dogs and a 1/4 Heinzl. Had no luck with Sally with any breeding's off Chuck. Was bred to Jackson's Tuney with no luck. Never got to breed her to my Jake dog but did get one litter off my Winchester dog and Spruill's Gr CH Jack dog. Some good dogs came off those breeding's. Those got drowned or stolen in Texas. The Gang buster's managed to keep a good one called Sally Cat.

    From this blend of dogs I started on another line of dogs and added the breeding off the Zetterquest's brother's Crazy Critter dog. More Carver-Creel -Boudreaux breeding. All these dogs I started with were not young dogs. I had a limited time to bred up any pups.

    From all this I started getting some of the best dogs I had had in a long while. V. Jackson took notice and asked me if he could breed his Tuney dog to my Face bitch and to my Monkey bitch and my Sally bitch. Which I did. He had wanted to use his Son dog but Son got killed in a kennel accident. Tuney was his brother and I think the last of those dogs. Got one litter off Face and Monkey but not Sally. I kept none of the pups and let him have all of them. He liked those crosses a lot.

    Like I said before I had changed directions from being a hard core D. Mayfield man and wanted for once in my life to do my own thing and think for myself. I was getting much better built and more talented dogs with a Boudreaux/Carver-Creel/Mayfield crossed dogs than just the Sunshine based dogs. In fact the Mayfield Snake x Coplin dogs were much better over all dogs than the Sunshine dogs. Had tremendous biting power and wrestling abilities. All were small dogs.

    Things were really looking good, then someone comes on my dog yard and breaks the back of my Chuck dog so bad I had to put him down. Later my little Monkey bitch had been bred back to that Crazy critter dog the Zetterquest brothers owned. She was full of pups and soon to deliver. Again while I had to work and was called out of town. Monkey had been heavily poisoned and found dead in the box. The culprit even stood her up on her back and leaned her against the side of the brood box. Was no sign of a struggle/bleeding of any sorts or a miscarriage problem. The bitch was so stiff she looked too have been dead two or three days.

    From all of this, some other personnel problems along with worrying what day Mr. Law and the Humane Dyke society might pay me a visit. I gave it up and let V. Jackson take the rest of the dogs with him back to Texas. He blended what was left of all these dogs to start his last line of dogs.

    To the over seas fellows like ProjectX/KeyStone, that bought up some of the last in bred Mayfield stock before he died. If still getting good dogs that can win and show gameness. I say be thankful and run with it. Over time if some of it starts not being up to par. You will have to go to some source of Boudreaux/Carver/ Patrick/ or a Tudor's Red Bill line to hopefully fire it back up. To worry so much about Blind Billie or any of those issues of 40 or 60 years ago is just a moot point. Best live in the today, no one knows what tomorrow holds for them.

    No one had a monopoly on this breed of dogs from many years ago and will not today. Other good dog men had dogs just as good or better than Mr. Tudor or Don Mayfield. Stinson & Glover proved they could condition their dogs with the best of the lot. Including Mr. Mayfield. Was not so much the conditioning and certainly no dog rub. What got Easy was that killing mouth that the Ruby bitch had.

    Was a repeat of history of what Lonzo Pratt's Mike dog did to Leo Kinard's dog. With Mayfield handling Leo's dog. Don was wearing a Texas Ten gallon hat and trying to hide Leo's dog from Lonzo Mike's dog. If you have the old magazine's pictures of that match it is quite obvious. Did no good, Pratt out smarted them all and flew his dog out there in advance. Lonzo's Mike was a well rested dog sitting in their back yard waiting for show time. Lonzo's Mike was a super bad bulldog.

    Many times these line of dogs are bought and bred around popular trends and dog Breeder's popularity. When I got in the game, the Colby/Heinzl/Bullet/Hemphill OFRN lines were becoming less popular. It was the Carver/Boudreaux lines that were starting to be popular. Then later it was the Jocko-Red Boy-Medlin dogs, The Crenshaw-Jeep- Red Boy dogs. Later it was the Patrick dogs. Today many of all these lines are blended together. Far the better or the worse I am still seeing some nice looking Pit dogs today. You have some good dogs be thankful, if not keep trying till you get or find some. Cheers
    Last edited by CYJ; 07-07-2017 at 09:23 AM. Reason: spelling correction

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