Should Showing EXTREME GAMENESS be Part of DOY Candidacy?

[Macker]

Gameness is the foundation that all these once in a lifetime world beaters where built on, if the men that laid these foundations had the same cull cull cull attitude that some guys have, these animals would have never been born.

We have a saying and that's that you'll get no luck for killing a gamedog, an old dog or a pup.

A gamedog has done all within his ability and still wants to do more, an old dog has obviously been a loyal servant and just because he or she can't produce pups anymore they've earned the right to live their days out in peace and a pup, if you don't have space for them then don't bring them into the world, it's not their fault we get greedy.

I'm not religious but I believe we still need a bit of luck in this game, truth be know we need a lot lol

Don't get me wrong, no body wants a yard full of game plugs but if you find yourself with a yard full of them, don't question the dogs, question the way you've bred them. Because More than likely your breeding methods have given you a yard full of rubbish.

[bulldoghistorian]

Dunno the longer I am in these dogs gameness has a limit
I doubt any dog could just go on and on , I mean if a dog would have to show gameness on and on , the tear on his body
he probably wouldn't even make it to nr 5
I have seen quite a few and seen those that would show extreme gameness only to be brought out again and quit in short time

[No Quarter Kennel]

A truly elite dog may never be put in the situation where it had to show heart...so I believe having two separate titles would be best.

I agree with this.
Simply b/c a dog has never had to display heart to win doesn't mean the heart isn't there.
DOY is about performance and there is a lot to consider. More than all the different abilities, keeps, handling and gameness. There's a ton to consider. So, b/c there are so many ways to win and so many ways to lose, DOY accolades should not consider one component over the other, but rather sum of all components.

Gene Stallings went to Bear Bryant about a recruit for football one time. He was super excited. Kept pointing out how, no matter how many times this young man got knocked down, he would always get back up and keep coming back for more. Showed Coach Bryant countless examples of how this young man would always come back for more, no matter what happened to him. He finally asked Coach Bryant, "So what do you think". Coach Bryant didn't hesitate. He simply said, "I want the guy that keeps knocking him down"

Winning is about winning. Doesn't matter how, especially in a sport where there are so many ways to lose. One freak "Fear Bite" from a cur that is losing drastically from the bottom can end a fight or even the life of a truly great animal.

So no, I don't think gameness should carry more weight in selecting a DOY candidate than other components. I think it is definitely a consideration, but no more than a lot of other components.

[No Quarter Kennel]

I voted NO. I think DOY is a performance title. I would like to think it means for the period of that year a certain dog won over the stiffest of competition. I do not know a lot about this year's odds on favorite (PBB DOY) but the fact he won as many as he did and beat a dog who had won just about as many as he did would get my vote for DOY.

If one of the dog's he totally outclassed yet made those chin scraping, legs broken scratches were on the ballot I would not vote him for DOY. But if there was a category for GameDog of the Year that dog that showed that gameness would get my vote, and the winner/loser would not factor in.

I consider DOY as the best total package dog for that given year. I think it was in a previous post, but the gamest dogs find themselves on the 'losing' side of the bracket, simply by running into a more talented/higher ability dog. And, unfortunately, and I do not agree, that 'losing game dog' often ends up seen as a plug. If that same dog did the exact same thing, yet won, for whatever reason, his gameness is deemed more valuable.

I like the idea of having multiple year end titles. I like the idea of Kennel of the Year, and maybe even Producer of the Year as well. No other 'organization' has just one year end award. I mean at 9PM the Oscars come on, they make one award announcement, and then its if off by 9:04.

I would love to see another category "Gamest DOY". For me, and it is my personal opinion, GDOY would be more impressive than DOY. EWO

As usual - well said

[No Quarter Kennel]

Like I said, dog butchers, not dogmen.

And they seldom have really good records either.

Jack

Jack, I get where you are coming from, but there are a lot of good dogmen in the area that I'm in, who have no interest in breeding. They are actually humane, but on the same hand, do not have any use for a dog who cannot win in dominant fashion. Their win/loss records are as good as anyone on the planet. Simply b/c they have no use for a dog that is ONLY game does not mean they murder/cull/or destroy the animals, it only means they have no use for them. Me? Sure, I'll feed and breed a game dog, but again, I'm not doing what they are doing and not on their level.

I'm not taking a 205lb guy who can take a beating and never stop but can do nothing else, to fight Jon Jones. It's not a smart business decision.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Gameness is the foundation that all these once in a lifetime world beaters where built on, if the men that laid these foundations had the same cull cull cull attitude that some guys have, these animals would have never been born.

We have a saying and that's that you'll get no luck for killing a gamedog, an old dog or a pup.

A gamedog has done all within his ability and still wants to do more, an old dog has obviously been a loyal servant and just because he or she can't produce pups anymore they've earned the right to live their days out in peace and a pup, if you don't have space for them then don't bring them into the world, it's not their fault we get greedy.

I'm not religious but I believe we still need a bit of luck in this game, truth be know we need a lot lol

Don't get me wrong, no body wants a yard full of game plugs but if you find yourself with a yard full of them, don't question the dogs, question the way you've bred them. Because More than likely your breeding methods have given you a yard full of rubbish.

You just said if you have a yard full of game dogs, then you have rubbish????

[No Quarter Kennel]

Dunno the longer I am in these dogs gameness has a limit
I doubt any dog could just go on and on , I mean if a dog would have to show gameness on and on , the tear on his body
he probably wouldn't even make it to nr 5
I have seen quite a few and seen those that would show extreme gameness only to be brought out again and quit in short time

Honestly - I think like you do.
I think that every single one will quit and they all have a clock that is ticking. The more damage they take, the faster the clock ticks. Less recovery they get, the faster the clock is ticking. It goes on and on.

Any dog and every dog born CAN BE STOPPED!

[Macker]

I just said a lot things, if that's how you read it then so be it. Let me lay it out a bit simpler.

Take gameness as the most solid foundation to build upon, if you have a solid family of game dogs you can build upon it in your breeding choices, if you constantly get game plug after game plug, ask yourself where your going wrong.

If you wanna twist what I say to make out something else but I take gameness as the single most important factor when breeding dogs.

[S_B]

I just said a lot things, if that's how you read it then so be it. Let me lay it out a bit simpler.

Take gameness as the most solid foundation to build upon, if you have a solid family of game dogs you can build upon it in your breeding choices, if you constantly get game plug after game plug, ask yourself where your going wrong.

If you wanna twist what I say to make out something else but I take gameness as the single most important factor when breeding dogs.

I got where you were coming from Macker. It is the truth! Gameness should come first in foundation dogs and you build from there. The idea is the total package animal that can win with the least amount of damage or if needed can be there all night long.

I think No Quarter might have just focused on that small part of what you wrote instead of the whole?

I see we are holding pretty steady at a tie. I'm kind of confused as to why anyone would vote yes after reading all of these pages of good information. We can't all agree and that's what keeps us honest and interested but I would like to hear more from the "yes" voters!

S_B

[Macker]

I voted no, I'd like to see the separate categories, it just makes it a hole lot more interesting every year when we're voting and debating. Look at the mileage we're getting from this sure lol