Bulldogs and Terriers

[bulldoghistorian]

what always puzzled me is the separation and the different way things went between when the dogs arrived in the USA and how different it went with what was left in the UK and Ireland

where in fact the gamedog evolved to become the apbt and what little was left in Europe between 1900 and 1970
although I read a fascinating story about an indian or half indian fella that was stationed in the UK and exchanged dogs briefly with some people
also some staffs were send over in the late 70's
think it had a lot to do with the potato famine but not sure

[bulldoghistorian]

That dogs bone is a little fine for his size, to me he looked a bit under fed as a young dog. A lot of dogmen believe in keeping a thin waist on a dog their entire life, slightly above show weight. I disagree, although I also don't think keeping them 10+ pounds over is good either.

Pups should be fed what they'll eat, I like feeding mine 3x daily to start then 2x daily until around 6 months of age. Never raised a thin boned dog, but I have seen some bred similar who are.

I don't know if there truly is terrier blood in these dogs as I simply wasn't there when they were started and the documentation is sketchy. But I do know when you have a breed who's purpose is to work their looks will vary from kennel to kennel due to selection and husbandry. Look at sled dogs for example, they don't look like the thick boned huskies we see as pets. Thick bones look nice but they can be too thick to function properly. The pet huskies wouldn't last on a long sled run as they'd tire out way too fast caring the weight of that bone. Something to consider, looks never did much but look good.

S_B

Ive always felt that the two most contributing factors to size is what we would call environment and genetics
I keep a high standard yard and I mean really High standard , feeding the best twice a day , shit cleaned every day , water cleaned every other day , walked and or excersized twice a week( my motto is the easiest thing is culling the hardest is management)
still with all every litter I get one or two with what I call a chicken ass , a weak back end u can seen it already when there 6 months old
funny thing is they always seem to be the hottest and have the most bottom
have been trying for 20 years to breed it out , no such luck yet

[bulldoghistorian]

on a side note there is no reason to increase weight when it gets cold , u just need to feed more times a day and increase fat ratio of the food
4 pounds above show weight is more than enough to carry one trough the winter

endurance athletes keep a small ratio between show and off season weight

[S_B]

Bulldoghistorian you're exactly right about management being the hardest. Managing these dogs is endless work and definitely the hardest part above all.

I get something like a "chicken ass" as you mention. I just simply call it a weak backend and also slip hicks from time to time. I try to factor that into my breeding selection, but the fact is they choose we don't.

While Bulldogs all look similar they are all selected differently by their breeders. I get where some look more terrier type while others more houndish. Who really knows what has been woven in there. I've heard of bitches being bred by strays and some really game dogs coming of it, they very well could have been bred back and continued with many many times in the breeds history.

What's interesting to me I have a few dogs with very intense noses. My house dog never fails to smell when anything different is around, whether it be a human driving by, a varmint or stale bread I sneak out and put in the yard for the birds. She without fail finds everything with her nose, makes me wonder what is in her background. lol

S_B

[Chase1]

I feel there were two types of the breed in America. The farm/hunting dog and the pit dog. Farmers and hunters in the countryside needed a reliable and dependable dog. It is my opinion that they crossed bulldogs with hounds and other farm dogs. This breeding was done to produce the desired dog(s) that the farmers/hunters needed the dogs to do. The pit dogs in my opinion were bred close to true. There may have been cases were a stray may have slipped in and bred to one of the females that were bred back into these dogs. Because in that era it was perfectly acceptable for a dogs to run loose. It was also frowned upon to have a bulldog tied up.

The predecessors of all terriers is the White English and the Black & Tan. The White English is the predecessor to the English Bull Terrier, Fox Terrier, Old Bedlington Terrier, Jack Russell Terrier. The Black & Tan is the predecessor to the Manchester Terrier, German Pincher, Airedale, Welsh, Patterdale, and etc...

So my question is if a A.P.B.T. is a bulldog/terrier cross. Why doesn't it come from the two terriers who produced all Terriers?

White English

[skip11]

Was lookin at some old photos of bulldogs, there are 2 or 3 that resembles a bull terrier. Unfortunately I forgot the names.