((( Great Pit Dogs who were NOT APBTs )))

[AmberLamps]

In regards to the Staffords that have been mentioned in this thread, there's one of them thar Staffords in the SDJ Grand Champion list..GR CH DOCK'S DUKE 5XW

[Officially Retired]

In following the subject brought up by Skipper on the other mentioned thread, this thread here shall be dedicated to that off-topic digression, namely to discuss known great pit dogs who were not APBT, such as the following dog brought up by MTK: Dock's GR CH Duke.

I have heard that name before, MTK, but don't know much about him. Do you know if he fought pit bulls for his Gr Ch Ship, other Staffordshire Bull Terriers, or a mixture of both?

How bout any other great non-APBT pit dogs?

[skipper]

http://sportingbullandterrier.webs.c...kingstaffs.htm

Info and pictures of some of the famous staffords.

[skipper]

FFB's Beanie
Sire: Hagler II Dam: Northford Suzie II

"Beanie" was regarded very highly as both a performer and producer, born in N.Ireland she proved her gameness in a number of demanding tests before being matched twice and winning both, one against a Reid cross in 46 mins and the second in 1hour 38mins into a Patrick cross. Shortly after this Beanie was purchased by L&B kennels in England where she was bred twice,once to the Milo dog giving BeanieII and also to Jocko producing a litter that included Jocko Jr and Merlin. Some time after she was sent over to Europe on the yard of the FFB's where she remained. Here she was bred four times, to Barney, Pilot,Rickey and finally to her son Jack. There were game offspring in all four litters, proving her worth as a brood bitch. At least six of her progeny were matched, these were Rickey Jr (1xw), Jocko Jr (1xL picked up game to an APBT, a son of Ch.Neillson), Flynn (2xw), Sharon (1xw), Droopy (1xL)and Jack (1xw). There were others that were'nt matched but were proven game. Beanie can rightly be regarded as a modern great in Staffords.

[skipper]

Bad Manners Combine "Judas"

Judas" was a white Stafford with a black patch covering his right ear and was bred by Eaststreet Kennels, the product of a mating between the well-known "Jocko" dog and one of his daughters. He was purchased by the BMC from T at Eaststreet and was exported to the continent.

The writer, whilst visiting the BMC yard noticed the pup and his strange behaviour in the kennel. He would spend enormous amounts of time, chasing his tail in an anti-clockwise direction, without any apparent goal in mind. His owners believed that this and other strange behaviour was due to the way he had been inbred to closely.

At 10 months old "Judas" got into a kennel fight with a dog called "R****" resulting in a broken cheekbone for the other dog. At 13 months old, he was rolled into a Pitbull from the Mullins line, with the dog having to be picked up at eight minutes after hitting a bleeder that wouldn't stop. At such a young age "Judas" was displaying the attributes and abilities of a strangely remarkable dog.

Several months later, a little test was organised with the FFB's and their good little dog called "Pilot", who had gained a reputation. It was one of the hardest rolls that the writer had witnessed with the "Pilot" dog showing superior ability despite his 3lb weight disadvantage. The "Judas" dog continued with his now regularly weird behaviour, like biting his own leg and then shaking it. At 4 minutes though, he got a hold on the "Pilot" dogs front paw and broke it. Both dogs had good bites, but to actually break bone, said something about the "Judas" dog's bite. The "Pilot" dog made a few good scratches on his 3 good legs. Both owners decided to pick up their dogs at the 25 minute mark to prevent further injury, but both were extremely reluctant to come away from the other.

After a long rest, "Judas" was hitched into a Pitbull called "Killer" which lasted 17 minutes, with the pitbull taking the count on his first. "Judas" flew his courtesy scratch and gained his first win. His second match was against a Red Devil bred dog called "Corvino". The other dog was picked up at 12 minutes after failing to deal with the hard biting "Judas". Both dogs ran fine courtesy scratches, with "Judas" being declared winner, his second triumph.

He was rolled several times after this second win, stopping some good dogs along the way. His last one was against a dog called "Gus" from the Taminford Kennels, which had been bred by the FFB's from a mating between "Pilot" and "Beanie", and was a hard test for both dogs. He was mated with a small number of K.C. bitches and a one-time winning bitch called "Fien", who was a Red Strain x O'Flynn Stafford cross. Future plans include mating "Judas" with the FFB's little Stafford bitch "Betty".

[skipper]

Ch. Red Warrior
Sire: Dann's Frazer of Ireland Dam: Dann's Mandy of Dublin

"Ch.Red Warrior", also known as "Delaney's Starsky" in Ireland, was brought over to England by Maurice Dann just as his parents were and renamed "Dann's Choice". He was the winner of at least four matches, some say it was as many as seven and like his brother "The Great Bruce" was a very game Stafford. Like any good dog Red Warrior was able to pass on his desired qualities and sired Red Joe, Leo, Dann's Rocky, Lee's Bucko and Ginger amongst others.

Breeder: T Lee
Sex: Male
Colour: Red
Weight:
Height:
Record: 4xW

[skipper]

Springview's CH Jim

Springview's Ch. Jim was out of Russel's Ch. Red Joe who was sired by Ch. Red Warrior, a Dublin bred dog from Bobby Watt's old stock. The Dam of Ch Jim was a bitch called Ginger, which was the result of a mating with the Red Warrior put to his half sister the Young Mandy of Dublin. Many of these matings were done by M. Dann, which was said to be way ahead than anyone with his breeding.

The Jim dog was very young to start and was rolled with some good dogs always wanting more. His first roll was at the age of 12 months into a dog from Dann's stock called Irish Black Jack, a very game field dog well tested in both field and pit. A few weeks later he was matched at the age of 13 months against a dog called Bull.. The match was made at 40lb and Jim was worked in anyway he could, by bike, by walking, and by pulling logs, nearly killing him as the owners at the time was not too knowledgeable about keeps and rests, which would change as they later became known as one of the better conditioners in the UK.

The Jim dog came in at 37lb and Bull was 42lb. At the let go, Bull came out and threw Jim all over the pit and at the 10 minute mark Bull had Jim down and was working the chest. Jim came back and proved that he also knew how to chew as he started working on Bull's nose. When asked to scratch at 18 minutes Bull quit making Jim a 1xw.

Jim was rested for a few months before he was matched against a 1xw called Sam. The match was set at 38lb and Jim was 37 1/2lb while Sam came in on the spot. At the start it was fast with Sam on the head and Jim on the legs and chest. Both were biting hard and swapping it out and at the 10 minute mark, Jim was on the nose biting hard, Sam was trying to get to the chest , but fading fast he was picked up at 28 minutes making Jim a 2xw.

Jim was then sold to some guys in Portsmouth as the owners moved over to APBT's and couldn't get a match for Jim in their own area. Jim's Championship match was set at 38lb, against Buzz, but this match was quickly over as Buzz turned straight away and stood the line in 2 minutes, making Jim a Champion.

His 4th match was very controversial since it was claimed that he lost due to a fault and a bad referee. This match was against a 4x winner name Ch. Sam who was going for his Grand Championship. It was said that when it was Jim's turn to scratch and the referee said, " Release the dogs " both handlers did so. It seems like Sam's handler had accepted that Jim had made his scratch since he also released Sam, but then the weirdest thing happened, Sam started to spin around in his corner very fast chasing his tail when Jim shot across trying to mouth him without success and was counted out by the referee who awarded the match to Sam after 1 hour and 5 min and said that Jim didn't make the scratch.

Later on Jim was matched into a dog called Ben who had won over a good dog in 1 hour. Jim won this match since Ben was unable to scratch at 1 hour and 37 minutes. A few months later Jim was matched into a EBT/Staff cross called Rocky, which quit standing on the line after 29 minutes making Jim a 5x winner. Many considered this dog a Gr.Ch. even though he lost to Gr. Ch. Sam due to a fault and a bad referee.

Jim was retired to stud at the age of 7 and he was only bred to a few bitches. The Jim dog was a highly respected dog, highly praised even among the Stafford fancy of the continental Europe. There are still offspring from this well bred line around today, but don't expect to easily find them.

Source: Staffordtribute site

[skipper]

A few dogs. If you guys find these reads interesting, I could fill in with plenty more.

[Officially Retired]

Very interesting stuff, Skipper.
To me, I don't see too much difference in a Staffordshire Bull Terrier and an APBT. They seem to be about the same weight too, some of them being 42 lb pit weight. That is bigger than any dog on my yard!

[skipper]

There aren't many left. Due to heavy inbreeding most of todays stafford are much smaller. It's just like the apbt some bloodlines tends to be bigger. But the ones I'm most familiar with are down from the psycho/northford bloodlines. The ones I have seen weighs approx. Females 20-30 lbs Males 25-40 lbs, in generall. IMO The staffords are alot more easygoing then the apbt. But it's basicly the same breed. Take a look at the Colby bloodline, very similiar to the staffords. In the end they are all gamedogs.