It is old news to most people that Indian Sonny was the rightful owner of Indian Bolio, and that Bolio was stolen by Pat Patrick's partner (Lou Louis) and that Pat wound up with Bolio. Well, I was just doing some thinking about "what if" Pat Patrick had never received the stolen Indian Bolio from Lou Louis ... would linebred Bolio dogs be a stronger force today than they are now?

On the one hand, because Patrick was mostly a dog-seller, the fact Patrick got ahold of Bolio, bred him a lot, and sold all the pups, created the ability of THE WHOLE FANCY profiting and benefiting from the prepotency of Indian Bolio.

On the other hand, truth to tell, the more I look at the pedigrees, the more I like the breedings of Indian Sonny's dogs better

  • For example, Bolio's most famous offspring in the hands of Patick has to be Patrick's Red Baby.
  • The thing about it is, Indian Sonny's best Bolio bitch, Ch Indian Bloomers, decimated Red Baby's sister ... and everything else she faced.

Sure, Indian Bolio produced some great dogs for Patrick, like Ch Princess and her brother Chen Leng, but I like the Corvino & Eli blood behind the Indian Sonny dogs better than I like the Clouse blood. For one thing, the Eli blood is more powerful and can win in its pure form (while today's Clouse dogs can't), and for another the Corvino blood Sonny used is just as game as the Clouse dogs, but are built MORE rugged and durable IMO.

While, admittedly, it would be hard for any bitch to beat Red Baby's production record, it still doesn't change the fact that Indian Bloomers (also a heavy Bolio dog) beat the mess out of Red Baby's sister. While, of course, this is not definitive, it gets you thinking. Moreover, while the amount of truly great dogs coming from Patrick was astounding, once he received the stolen Bolio and bred the daylights out of him, the very fact that Patrick sold his Bolio dogs everywhere was as much a factor to their success as was their quality. (Sonny didn't really make his dogs available.) So, yes, most of the direct offspring of Bolio retained his prepotency, a la the linebred Gr Ch Ojo Azul, but so did Indian Sonny's linebred Bolio dogs, as with Hook's Gr Ch Rowdy.

In fact, Gr Ch Rowdy was bred to a daughter of Red Baby to produce A & M's Ch Red Dog, which is in the pedigree of Hollingsworth's Dolly. With the help of Yellow, this elevated the game, tough Hollingsworth dogs into the game, tough, elite level of the Mayday generation.

Meanwhile, the same blood as Gr Ch Rowdy, using only Indian Sonny's combinations (Bolio/Eli/Carver/Corvino) made Champions and Grand Champions left as it is, such as Jesse Rods' Gr Ch Midnight.

It is hard to rate one line over the other. Patrick's Bolio dogs (with Clouse and Tombstone) have certainly been WAYYY more influential, but again that is because Patrick was selling his dogs all over the world, while Sonny kept his private, selling only to a very select few individuals. Had Sonny been able to keep Indian Bolio his whole life, and kept his Bolio/Eli/Corvino combinations rolling ... and especially if they really got out there, I think they possibly could have stood the test of time better than Patrick's versions.

It was mentioned on another thread that the pure Clouse dogs now lack bone and "need help" to be competitive, while pure Eli-type dogs are capable of still making Champion and Grand Champion, as they are, and pure Corvino dogs are still durable as rhinos and can survive any onslaught and go 3 hours. Anyone who is truly familiar with Pat Patrick's bloodline knows that most of Pat Patrick's purebred Bolio dogs have gone the way of the Clouse dogs (tiny, thin-boned, can't win).

So I am thinking out loud here: what if Pat Patrick hadn't have received the stolen Indian Bolio? What if, instead, Indian Sonny would have kept his rightful ownership of Bolio, continued to breed Bolio to the best Eli bitches possible, and the best Eli/Corvino combinations, and bred these daughters back to Bolio? Might these have been even better? Might the line still be more competitive, in its pure form, today?

Remember, what we call "pure Bolio dogs" are really pure Bolio/Clouse + Bolio/Tombstone combinations (with, of course, the various paper-hangings of Reuben and other Carver dogs in there)

But what if, instead, these were linebred Bolio dogs, with Eli/Corvino combinations ... like what demolished Red Baby's littermate sister?

While no one can deny the historical "contributions" of Pat Patrick's thievery, combined with his disseminating Bolio dogs all over the world ... the question remains ... was that "the best possible" history for the Indian Bolio bloodline ... or was an even better history taken, and not realized, simply because Indian Sonny had better-bred brood bitches to use than what Pat Patrick had available?

If the Clouse dogs "can't compete today," in their pure form, while the Eli dogs still can, and if the majority of Patrick's bloodline has basically deteriorated the way of their shared Clouse ancestry ... I know which I would rather continue on with, if I were given the choice.

I also know for a fact that Eli/Carver and Eli/Bolio dogs tend to make it higher-up the win column than do pure Clouse dogs as well as pure Bolio/Clouse dogs. This is a fact that can be seen, both with the benefit of hindsight, and with the ability to crunch the statistical data that we have here in this database.

Both versions have produced winners. Both versions have produced Champions. Both versions have produced Grand Champions. However, when you start clicking our Bulldog Statistics Feature ... and you really start looking at the highest level possible 7x, 8x, and 9x+ winners ... you will repeatedly find Bolio/Eli or other Carver/Eli combinations, not Bolio/Clouse or Bolio/Tombstone combinations (with the exception of Buck, who had Zebo in there).

Therefore, realizing this ... and realizing that Eli and Eli/Carver combinations are the most consistent ULTRA-high achievers ... that are able to go beyond mere 5xWs ... what would you do if you had to choose which way to breed Bolio as your own stud dog? To Sonny's Eli/Carver & Corvino bitches or to Pat Patrick's Clouse-type bitches ... and which version would you rather get a linebred specimen from?

Jack