INDIAN SONNY'S BOLIO DOGS -- BETTER THAN PATRICK'S?

[Officially Retired]

How a dog is papered has never really carried a lot of weight with me, or the guy that turned me onto the dogs. Fake papers are easily 'corrected' with high standards and consistent selection, i.e., Hammer and Rueben.
EWO

There is a difference between how a dog is "papered" vs. how a dog is bred.

How a dog is actually bred is quite relevant IMO ... which can explain a lot, including the mouth of your stud

Agreed. Since we know how things turned out on one side of the equation I will ponder a guess on the other. I would say over time there would have been more winning match dogs from Sonny breeding Bolio. I agree there would be some inbreeding but I would ponder he would breed Bolio that same way he bred the other "Bolio" dogs. The Carver/Corvino/Clause and Eli dogs would be under Bolio and then those dogs back to the Sonny 'Bolio' dogs. I imagine there would have been a lot of winners from those breedings.

That is exactly what I imagine.

In time the argument would then be which family was carrying the other, but that would be an entirely different topic.

Well, that is my whole point, really.

The Bolio dogs are pretty much "carrying" the Clouse dogs IMO. They also pretty much carry the Maloney dogs. Do you see a lot of multi-winning "pure" Clouse or Maloney dogs out there? These dogs pretty much need the Bolio dogs to be known. You don't see anyone using pure dogs of these lines, anywhere, and those few individuals who do have them, don't use them. Yes, Tater was a great dog in beating Rastus, but he died his next fight. Patrick's Tuffy won 2. But that was a long, long, long, time ago. Same with Maloney dogs. How many pure Rodger Crabb dogs are out there winning 3-9x, like pure Eli dogs and pure Carver dogs do?

But you do still see the occasional heavy Bolio dogs, like Andy Capp and Amboss, still winning over the best in the game, if the deck is shuffled just right. Which again is my whole point. If Bolio had been consistently crossed with truly badass stock, you would be seeing multi-winners from the line a whole lot more.

The very fact that you can MAKE the argument, who was carrying whom?, in an Eli/Bolio merging underscores the power of my point here

The very fact both pure Eli dogs, and pure Carver dogs, are repeatedly and consistently able to make Champions and Grand Champions, on their own, IS my point

Because you would be merging an amazing athlete in Bolio, with amazing power in the Eli dogs, with a 1/4 shot of amazing gameness/durability of the Corvino dogs ... rather than merging an amazing athlete with ordinary game dogs, with structural problems inherent in the line, as in the Clouse dogs ... with more game dogs in the Tombstone line. In other words, there is nothing really extraordinary about either the Maloney dogs or the Clouse dogs on their own ... they actually brought Bolio down IMO. (Or, he raised their ability, however you want to look at it.)

The entire thrust of my thread is the fact that Bolio would be merging the athleticism he brought with the brute power of the Eli dogs (who can win and become Gr Ch on their own, pure), and I think replicated over time, you would come out with much, much more capable animals, and much more frequently.

That is my belief at any rate.