I give all credit to Jack for putting all of this stuff together in his PBB. I've taken what's there, as most here, and have messed with it to get to where I'm currently at with what I feed. I get that the economy version includes rice and it's fine and by far better than kibble, but it's still something not natural to a dog's diet. That's the only reason I don't include it. That and the fact that I like to prep my weekly feed a certain way and making enough rice for 17 dogs for a week would just irritate me. I would rather pay a little more and get what I want (invest) than spend more time and less money boiling and keeping rice in a fridge that's already full of dog feed. I do not include any veggies. Reason being is real simple. I cross referenced the economy raw to the ideal raw and took the things I like best. I seems if you are not going to feed veggies, you should feed a good multi-vitamin in it's place. That's what I do. I take 4 32oz containers of yogurt and mix 8 oz of Red Cell with it. I stir it all up. It doesn't separate at all so it works well. I make sure it's well blended and each dog get's 1'4 cup of this with their feed, thus getting about 1 teaspoon of red cell. I use the horse formula so I can use less of it and get more.