Quote Originally Posted by SwampDweller
TFX, it takes a lot more than a difference of opinion to get me in my feelings big guy. We're just having a gentlmen's discussion; that's it. Your opinion differs from mine, but I can't argue with what you saw or experienced; no more than you can agrue about my opinion. These dogs are what they are! Most are rough, with above average mouth, although, they are also a good percentage of the ones I have, and others I've seen that are just as game as any; put in the right shape, of course. I'm not saying all of them are, but I doubt if anyone can claim that all of the dogs they bred & raised are "as dead-game as a live one can be". With the mouth that these dogs have, coupled with the drive to finish, most won't ever get their "oil" checked to see. And that suits me just fine, cause honestly, when I was active (years ago) I wasn't trying to be in there all night anyway. However, I did get pushed to the limit with a few; one being my BULL dog, who went to a 2:02 game lose against Nail'Em Down's MAGIC 2xw; but we were awarded GIS honors after completing a courtesy that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up! BULL was a son of the BAM BAM dog that Sand Pitt had years ago, bred to the old RAFFLE bitch that Maywalt had, who was bred down from a Lonzo Pratt/Howard Heinzl bloodline. Then there was our HAMMER dog, that won in 2:31 against The Deacon & Rodgers' charge; also winning GIS honors that night. HAMMER was a son of WILD BILL CODY, bred to a bitch Grave Yard Boyz got from STP. These are dogs I owned & campaigned myself (years ago). There are others that I can list that were "pushed to the limit", and still showed "true to the game". Dogs like, CH. SEEKA, CH. INDIO, CH. PUP PUP (as you mentioned Jack), GR.CH. SPARKY, CH. KING JOKER, etc., etc. And I can go on and on, but there is also a list just as long of those that quit. I have had success with them, and I wouldn't trade them for any other. These dogs will always be the foundation of my yard, however, I have, and will continue to cross into other lines that I think will add to their ability in some way. So TFX & Jack, I do respect both of you, as well as your opinions, but I still beg to differ. I like the ones that win; and if they can go in there and do it, where their gameness is never tested, than thats cool by me! Just as long as they win against first-class competition.....
Swamp

Great post, Swamp, and I feel you. You can only go by what you personally have experienced.

In a similar example to yours, I myself had all of the "experts" of my day telling me not to breed to Ch Hammer, because (they said) the dog "couldn't produce." I ignored their bad advice, and bred to Hammer anyway, and "the rest (as they say) is history." In hindsight, I have produced more winners, and bona-fide DG dogs, through my Hammer/Trinx dogs than any of the nay-sayers of my day ever have or did by following their own ideas 8-)

As with anything, the successful breeding enterprise depends on selection, and the choice one man makes in his matings will not necessarily yield the same results as the choice another man makes with his matings. Those people who told me "not" to breed to Hammer were trying to give me good advice, and I am sure they were accurately-reflecting their own experiences ... but the simple fact is "their" experiences had nothing to do with my experiences, which turned out to be as good as I could have hoped for. A lot of people attribute my breeding success to Miss Trinx, and try to downplay Hammer's influence, but I think this is an error of judgment. Because I also bred Trinx's brother Truman twice, and to Hollingsworth's Bull once, and yet I had nowhere near the quality dogs (nor the uniformity of litter) that I got by breeding Trinx to Ch Hammer. That breeding just clicked, and it clicked deeply and for real, with a trans-generational and multi-replicating authority that still exists today.

So I don't blame you for ignoring what TFX and I have said, as even though his experiences, and my experiences, are given in earnest goodwill and are true, in the end our experiences still have nothing to do with your own experiences ... using different individual dogs and different segments of the bloodline ... and which you personally have worked with. So, as a man who fully understands how different twists to a line, and different individuals used from that line, can yield vastly different results, I completely respect what you say.

Cheers,

Jack