Bert Sorrells' Stuff

[Officially Retired]

Enjoyed it too, and enjoyed it earlier after reading hard culling or genetic re direction. But after topic #1001 on game-dog.com (named "would you breed to a well bred curr") about culling where at least 90 % of the people says they would NEVER bred to a curr yet they would breed to that one good dog out of a whole shit litter, i wonder.. where are all of those people here?

I think the very nature that led to the structure of this board dictates a more intelligent clientel and a greater degree of understanding. Kudos to Jack for that and Kudos to all board members who strive to adhere to the standard that has been established.

Thanks R2L and No Quarter.

I think the whole idea of "game or cur" is an insane idea. Like saying "mouth or no mouth," or "air or no air." The truth is, dogs have degrees of gameness, degrees of mouth, degrees of stamina, etc., and all we as breeders try to do is to breed to dogs who have a HIGH degree of all these things.

Most dogs we breed to do NOT have "100% killer mouth," or "100% tireless stamina," or "100% dead gameness" under any and all circumstances ... and yet most of the dogs we breed to DO have a high degree of all of these things when compared to other dogs. It's the same thing with ability. There are almost zero "100% perfect athletes," but hopefully we're all breeding to dogs with a high degree of athleticism.

I agree with most people that gameness is the #1 trait to breed for, and I don't want to breed to any dog that looks or acts like it's going to quit (let alone to any dog that has quit), but if some dog had a HUGE degree of ability, stamina, and enough gameness to go down to the very bitter end against world class opposition ... and it wasn't quite 100% game ... I sure would still think a lot of that dog, because most dogs people are breeding to at home would not have gone that far.

Sure, maybe in some ways it's better to breed to the dog that whipped him ... but (take the original Ch Nico for example) not always. Gr Ch IBM may have outlasted Ch Nico, and Ch Nico might not have been 100% DG, but looking at their production records, I would rather breed to Ch Nico any day than Gr Ch IBM.

So there is a lot more to it than just "game or cur" ...

Jack

[FrostyPaws]

There is only one way I'd breed to a dog that quit, and it is if that dog came from a litter of what I call honest dogs. Since that term means different things for all of us, I just leave it at that. And if those honest dogs are from an honest family of dogs, then yes, I'd breed to that dog that quit as opposed to the super game dog from, lets say, a Zebo family of dogs. Now, some things have to be taken into context. If the dog that quit was a rank dog, then I'm still not going to do that breeding. The dog that quit is going to have to have a reason why it quit; it can't just quit on top like a junky jalopy.

One must always remember there is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.

[Officially Retired]

That is a good point: absolutely, percentages of good dogs in the litter (as well as how deep the offending dog was willing to go before he had enough) are definitely deciding factors.

For example, Hollingsworth's Bodine (after repeated ass drubbings and multiple hard tests) finally did quit, FAT, off the chain ... in nearly 2 hours when put uphill against a better dog in the summer ... but he had shown so game, so many times before, as had his littermates ... and he was in such poor shape when he was done ... that he was put back on the chain by his owner (Butch Davis), who bet a guy that "no one" could make Bodine quit.

The simple truth is no dog can overcome enough human stupidity leveled against it ...

Jack

[pig mad]

Is there any winning over there anymore or anyone working them anymore?

[R2L]

pera is still active with the sorrel blood in the balkan.

http://dogarchive.kennel-apbt.com/details.php?id=103561

contracted vs mak's ch mrki

this line is still winning in europe too

http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/mod...&dog_id=183657

[Officially Retired]

Is there any winning over there anymore or anyone working them anymore?

Thought I would merge your thread with this one, Pig Mad, as there was quite a bit written here

Jack

[Milky]

pera is still active with the sorrel blood in the balkan.

http://dogarchive.kennel-apbt.com/details.php?id=103561

contracted vs mak's ch mrki

That will be a intresting one for sure. Those MAK-dogs seem to be very hard biting and rough dogs.

[prairiedog]

Just a bit of trivia for you fellas: In Silver's second show it took the Carlos dog 1:04 to win, later Black Mup faced Carlos and finished him in :30. I've also heard that Pera conditioned Silver for upwards of six months for the show, and that Toske was so confident in Black Mup that he only put two weeks of work in the dog. Could be excuses after the fact, I'm just intimating details that were shared with me.

[pig mad]

Thought I would merge your thread with this one, Pig Mad, as there was quite a bit written here

Jack

Thanks...

[R2L]

http://dogarchive.kennel-apbt.com/details.php?id=103561