Big dogs

[tasoschatz]

Has the role of epigenetics taken into account, or to be fair, can be recognised to a certain degree this role? A dog is judged as worth for breeding after a certain age, by which time epigenetics will have participate in this organism's attitude and development.
Would you say that for eg a male will produce different results as breeding material at the age of three compared to the age of nine?
Finally, if cost isn't an issue, and assuming that at a younger age a dog will pass better genetic material, always because of epigenetics, would it be logical for a breeder to store semen from an early age and dispose in the future, or use, according to the dog's achievements?

[Officially Retired]

That is really all we are doing in an intense linebreeding program that is stacked with dogs of our own evaluation and selection, "trying to replicate what we want".
The inbreeding coefficient is not magic, it is only a statistic of how close we are to narrowing our genetic variables. That statistic may or may not hold true. You could have some 75% inbred dogs that still express a lot of variation, or you could have some lesser inbred dogs that are very consistent in type and genetics makeup.
You are exactly right Evolution, the only way to truly know the genetic "sameness" is through DNA profiling. I'm just not sure the cost will ever yield a positive outcome for a breeder in being able to select either brood animals or their offspring based entirely on DNA. For one, gameness is subjective and open to wide intepretation. One man's game dog is another man's cur. How can one interpret something from DNA data that has no absolute? I think coat color, nose color, eye color, scissors bite, and other very concrete traits may be able to be predicted by interpreting genetic markers. But gameness, intellegence, stamina, etc. are very complex traits that cannot be accurately measured without physical testing. I don't think any amount of DNA data will be able to identify those type of traits. At best, they will be able to show that a descendent possesses similar genetic makeup as an ancestor, but that is no guarantee that it will be expressed outwardly in the same manner. Even clones are not identical to their genetic donors.
Please feel free to elaborate and correct me where I am wrong, I'd love to get more insight as to where you are headed with your genetic data compilation.

Great post.

[evolutionkennels]

Do you believe genetics are malleable? Meaning can environment and other outside factors have an altering effect on the genes?

Has the role of epigenetics taken into account, or to be fair, can be recognised to a certain degree this role? A dog is judged as worth for breeding after a certain age, by which time epigenetics will have participate in this organism's attitude and development.
Would you say that for eg a male will produce different results as breeding material at the age of three compared to the age of nine?
Finally, if cost isn't an issue, and assuming that at a younger age a dog will pass better genetic material, always because of epigenetics, would it be logical for a breeder to store semen from an early age and dispose in the future, or use, according to the dog's achievements?

Yes... that's a very good point... the added expense would be that you have to store the semen earlier on.. the good thingies that if something happens to him, you have semen stored... it's gonna be an expensive experiment, but then again, I've always paid for what I want.

[evolutionkennels]

That is really all we are doing in an intense linebreeding program that is stacked with dogs of our own evaluation and selection, "trying to replicate what we want".

The inbreeding coefficient is not magic, it is only a statistic of how close we are to narrowing our genetic variables. That statistic may or may not hold true. You could have some 75% inbred dogs that still express a lot of variation, or you could have some lesser inbred dogs that are very consistent in type and genetics makeup.

You are exactly right Evolution, the only way to truly know the genetic "sameness" is through DNA profiling. I'm just not sure the cost will ever yield a positive outcome for a breeder in being able to select either brood animals or their offspring based entirely on DNA. For one, gameness is subjective and open to wide intepretation. One man's game dog is another man's cur. How can one interpret something from DNA data that has no absolute? I think coat color, nose color, eye color, scissors bite, and other very concrete traits may be able to be predicted by interpreting genetic markers. But gameness, intellegence, stamina, etc. are very complex traits that cannot be accurately measured without physical testing. I don't think any amount of DNA data will be able to identify those type of traits. At best, they will be able to show that a descendent possesses similar genetic makeup as an ancestor, but that is no guarantee that it will be expressed outwardly in the same manner. Even clones are not identical to their genetic donors.

Please feel free to elaborate and correct me where I am wrong, I'd love to get more insight as to where you are headed with your genetic data compilation.

I can't argue with that... there are so many different factors, but we have to start somewhere. My two controls will be the machobuck DNA strand, and the machobear strand.... and we will see what 10 years of experimenting and observation will reveal.

[Abe]

Evo I hope you continue to make your findings public for us laymen's !

[TFX]

I commend you for being dedicated enough to go down the untraveled path Evolution!

[evolutionkennels]

Thanks fellas