scatter bred v's line bred

[Officially Retired]

There will not be much uniformity with scatter breeding.

True.

If you just bred best to best are you always going to get hybrid vigour?
If you are just breeding best to best there will be no hybrid vigor.
They will not really be hybrids after the first and second cross IMO

If there is no regard for consistency, you may (or may not) get hybrid vigor, but you can't do so dependably.

Just because there is a "cross" doesn't mean anything meaningful will obtain as far as "vigor" goes. Some of the lamest bums I have ever seen were "straight crosses"

Some of the best, strongest, most intelligent, and most intense animals I have ever seen have been INbred ... on the right dogs

You want to concentrate the gene pool and then provide an outcross when necessary.
the new blood into your gene pool is what will provide the hybrid vigor.

If you inbreed on the right dogs, you will not need a cross

This doesn't mean the damage is done though just cuz your good dog is outcrossed to hell.
You can build uniformity and get what you are looking for threw selective breeding.
Your numbers just wont be the same at first... or maybe they will.

True, some outcrosses just "click" ... and they work well in high-percentage ... and when "that" happens, you have the makings of a whole new potential bloodline and breeding effort

Its no telling if a dog will produce himself or not regardless of what the paper says.

The only way to tell if a dog can produce is to breed it ... and to breed it enough different ways to see if there is a pattern and dependable prepotency that can be established ... which means the young have to be allowed to mature and be evaluated. This process can take up to 5 years to bloom, and many people make their decisions too quickly, either way, based on just the first few pups. Only enough variety, and the light of Time's perspective, can say for sure.

Its a gamble either way, your odds are just better with different scenarios.

I hear this all the time and, well, if breeding is "just a gamble" ... then scatterbreeding is playing with an unknown deck in someone else's house ... while linebreeding on the right dogs is stacking your own deck and counting your own cards in familiar territory

Jack

[CRISIS]

I hear this all the time and, well, if breeding is "just a gamble" ... then scatterbreeding is playing with an unknown deck in someone else's house ... while linebreeding on the right dogs is stacking your own deck and counting your own cards in familiar territory

Jack

ive been searching for an anology like that to describe this situation for the longest!..............dont be surprised if you hear that again someday jack cuz im bout to steal that shit!!! LOL

[Officially Retired]

LMAO

[EWO]

So what happens when you end up with this scatter bred dog and he/she can really bring home the mail. What are some of the theories breeding this dog with multiple bloodlines. Do you pick one strain and concentrate on that? Do you pick the traits you desire and match those traits to the 'consistent' line within him/her and go that route? It is hard to know the history of the scatter bred dog so other than admitting to going in blind or guessing or playing the gamble which route?
EWO

[Abe]

Following ewos question closely. What I think I've learned from the book is to inbreed as tight as you can on that one dog till you are able to create a nice foundation then line breed from there still as tight as possible. Find a similar female that carries traits that mimic the male then Take the offspring back to the one your trying to recreate. This is meant as a question if I understand correctly.

[Officially Retired]

So what happens when you end up with this scatter bred dog and he/she can really bring home the mail.

I personally would never "end up with" a scatter-bred dog

What are some of the theories breeding this dog with multiple bloodlines. Do you pick one strain and concentrate on that? Do you pick the traits you desire and match those traits to the 'consistent' line within him/her and go that route? It is hard to know the history of the scatter bred dog so other than admitting to going in blind or guessing or playing the gamble which route?
EWO

I would really do my research on his immediate ancestors and determine if that dog is a "fluke" ... or if there were family members (brothers/sisters/mother+mates/sire+mates/ etc.) that carried those characteristics also.

If so, I would purchase/breed to those family members with those tratis; if not, I wouldn't personally waste my time breeding the dog and raising its offspring.

Jack

[Officially Retired]

Following ewos question closely. What I think I've learned from the book is to inbreed as tight as you can on that one dog till you are able to create a nice foundation then line breed from there still as tight as possible. Find a similar female that carries traits that mimic the male then Take the offspring back to the one your trying to recreate. This is meant as a question if I understand correctly.

Right.

After selecting those family members that possessed those traits (if any), I would then make strategic breedings to carry forward with and reproduce them.

After a couple years waiting for the resulting pups to grow up & get schooled, I would then select those offspring that possessed these key traits I was after ... and then start the next steps with my breeding program, using the 7 basic breeding patterns (and plugging-in the right dogs) to carry this torch.

Jack

[Abe]

Thanks for the link. Ive read that chapter more times then ill admit to but need to read it more. Someday it will all stick

[EWO]

Considering for me I have only seen this one time it is a moot point, but just for the purpose of education I would like to hear the thoughts. Like always, there was a "guy"...He had a female that had every major blood line out there in her. She was bought out of the newspaper. The young kid that bought her pawned her off on his Mom who could not handle a dog with that much energy. She was given away for free with two bags of dog food, an igloo, a welded steel wire kennel and a set of papers that was a who's who of the bull dog world, watered down to boot. Basically he 'helped' the lady out to get the $500 pen. This bitch dropped'em like flies. She won four with three [ ] RIP's. She had a sense of finish that was unreal. Relentless. She herself was all one could ask for on show night, and more. I would roll the dice on a bitch like this in a program. As expected, I would not look for consistency in every pup of every litter. So what would be the plan? Breed to certain areas of her pedigree and then bring those together as they work out? Or father-daughter breedings? Like I said, I know the obvious answers about the eventual waste of time but if one were to have seen her I believe even the most demanding breeder would try to work her into the program. EWO

[Abe]

From what ive learned i would do Son x Mother ( since she was the star ) then then take the best of that brother x sister Then maybe find which line closes they follow as far as traits style that i love and start to line breed from there keeping semen on every male that prove to perform like the main star that started the desire. Yes i know that is close as it can be but in my mind the best way to stop shuffling the deck is take out as many bad cards as possible ( culling ) and breed the best. Looking forward to hearing out looks on my thoughts
This all is if you dont have access to whats before her and she is just a random dog off the street.