what is selecting if you neglect one of the most important aspects for these dogs. sure, some some cold dogs have produced good dogs but 90 % of the people who say this use it an excuse to justify breeding their shit or make money and only 10% % knows what he's doing and/or keeps the whole litter on his yard.
at the end of the day though, it's all personal preference. if you wanna breed cold dogs, go ahead.
it's really about what works for you and your goals. if breeding cold dogs provides a route for you to meet whatever goals you may have, go for it.
Rebel Kennels took stopped dogs off Crenshaw's yard and from what I heard bred up some good ones. Some of our most popular bloodlines of today came off some famous stud dogs that were bred a lot and still being matched. To later quit under various reasons. Why it is best not to breed to any match dog till it's career is over.
One example I saw was Baker Davis's Boomerang dog. Brought back out of retirement and matched around 7 or 8 years old. Boomerang was on a young 2 1/2 year old dog owned by Mr. H. Teal. If Boomer had not got in some early serious biting. He almost did not pull it off. It was a close call right down to the wire.
So a cold male or cold female here or there is no biggie if the end results puts you in the winning. Still breeding to a cold dog should have some good valid reason behind it. You just have to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Even today no one has the monopoly on that elusive game gene in dogs. The good ones are where you find them.
It simply is not that simpleOriginally Posted by bulldogsrus
Dogs are gene pools ... and as such they have a WHOLE HOST of genetics behind them that may not be expressed in the animal itself, but can be passed on to the next generation ... this is why game dogs can produce curs ... and curs can produce game dogs
The key to breeding dogs is NOT individual excellence, it's in reproductive prepotency, and whether the dog itself has (or can be reasonably be expected to have) this trait as a producer.
If I had a choice of breeding to a Grand Champion individual (who came from an all-cur litter, where every other littermate quit) ... or I could breed to a cold dog (who came off of an all-game/winning litter, where every other littermate was a winner and/or extremely game) ... I would breed to the cold dog in that case.
Why?
Because the average dog of the line is better in the cold dog than the Grand Champion, and (in breeding) you get what the AVERAGE dog of the line is "on average," NOT what the "one" excellent/cold dog is.
People who know what they're doing (like Rebel Kennels) can make the best dogs in the world out of culls ... while people who don't know what they're doing can turn the best dogs in the world into culls ... by knowing/not knowing how to breed them
Jack
U know your stuffIt simply is not that simple
Dogs are gene pools ... and as such they have a WHOLE HOST of genetics behind them that may not be expressed in the animal itself, but can be passed on to the next generation ... this is why game dogs can produce curs ... and curs can produce game dogs
The key to breeding dogs is NOT individual excellence, it's in reproductive prepotency, and whether the dog itself has (or can be reasonably be expected to have) this trait as a producer.
If I had a choice of breeding to a Grand Champion individual (who came from an all-cur litter, where every other littermate quit) ... or I could breed to a cold dog (who came off of an all-game/winning litter, where every other littermate was a winner and/or extremely game) ... I would breed to the cold dog in that case.
Why?
Because the average dog of the line is better in the cold dog than the Grand Champion, and (in breeding) you get what the AVERAGE dog of the line is "on average," NOT what the "one" excellent/cold dog is.
People who know what they're doing (like Rebel Kennels) can make the best dogs in the world out of culls ... while people who don't know what they're doing can turn the best dogs in the world into culls ... by knowing/not knowing how to breed them
Jack
There is no right way or wrong way to breed these dogs. For every one bred this way and has success there are five more bred another way with equal or even more success. All bulldogs can produce and all bulldogs can't produce. It is the happy median or that fine line between the two. The man behind the dogs is the key contributing factor. It is not the survival of the fittest. If we had an island and dropped off a couple hundred males and a couple hundred females that would be survival of the fittest. And at the end of the experiment the dogs that are left may be the fastest bulldogs alive, as flight is a far more natural instinct than fight. These dogs were not born this way they have been bred this way. If a breeder has the insight and forethought to make things better by breeding a certain dog instead of another, well, more power to them.
There are no absolutes in the dogs. But one of the things that is is just about an absolute is that the majority of the pedigrees are filled with dogs that have done nothing, or bred for the wrong reasons. And that includes the pedigrees of the game dogs that are bred to other game dogs. The game gene is not predominant one and it can't be called upon at will. On the flip side it can pop up when most think it will not. That is where the insight and forethought comes in. If one knows the dogs and the families of the dogs in question the end result will become more consistent and in time the success percentages will increase. Game to game is safe. No doubts there. But if one of the game dogs is from a litter with all curs and his parents had pedigrees with curs and do nothings then odds are one half of the game to game breeding will not be as "game to game" as one would think. When a breeder knows the families of a cold dog and that cold dog is full of game dogs, with talent and ability then breeding to him is (odds wise) a better option than breeding to a game dog who does not have the genetic background of game dogs. EWO
jack. Let's say i have only one, but an excellent bitch, bred her once and 6 out of 7 stopped, but she produced 1 one other excellent male. Technically speaking, these 2 excellent dogs would be useless in to a breeding program in your eyes? Unless you breed them with a dog from a more consistent game litter and higher your odds, like EWO mentions, or?
I believe this part as well. Selling puppies most definitely can make breeding to a cold dog look suspect to the guy on the outside looking in. Sometimes breeding to the poorer specimen is because he is easily accessible, he is bred really nice, or the breeder is kennel blind. I agree the % of people making knowledgeable breedings is slim in comparison to the people just breeding dogs. There are tons of dogs bred just because they have papers on them and that is not factoring in the dogs (good or bad) listed on those papers. Just papers.
I do not think cold dogs are always the best option but I would not rule them out completely just because they are cold dogs. EWO
If your one, excellent bitch also came from a mostly-cur litter, and then threw a mostly-cur litter, I wouldn't waste my time with her.
However, if she came out of a great litter, but the stud you bred her to didn't, then I would think he may have been the one to foul things up. If he was also from a good litter, then maybe the "mix" didn't work. [Sometimes, for whatever reason, two great dogs just don't mix (e.g., Zebo/Honeybunch), but they can produce when bred a different way.]
If neither the stud nor the bitch came from high-percentage litters, and threw a mostly-cur litter, then I would dump them all and wash my hands thoroughly.
The only way to get into the high-percentage business is to use high-percentage animals
If you gotta plant 6 to get 1 winner, then you're in the mostly-shit "with one exception" business ...
If you have 6 game dogs, and win with one of them, then you're in the truly good bloodline business
Jack
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