breeding theory

[Kimo615]

Thanks Jack...I appreciate the answer you gave me. Better than some BS answer like you said. I still learned something from that answer though. So I appreciate it. And EWO ....your right. That makes sense to. So far he's turning out pretty good. But only time will tell. He ain't scared of shit...I can say that much. My neighbors got a big ass Am staff that wants to eat my pup alive. My pups 5 months old. But he will not even flinch when that Staff is trying to get at him. He's got excellent confirmation. Build is alot like Chinaman. Very lean athletic look. He resembles him alot even at such a young age. I got to go to TGs and hand pick my pup. I picked him because he act like he owned tha Damn place at 3 months old he was whooping all his littermates ass for a chicken quarter lol.

[TFX]

What's y'all opinion on this ped? I own this dog. I'd like to hear from you to Jack as I value your opinion.

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=15485

Kimo,

There are very good Frisco based dogs, and unfortunately some poor ones too. You have ample amounts of Frisco there and tripled up on Pew II. I don't know about her, but we bred to her brother Too Tight in a swap with Vinny, and as I posted elsewhere on this forum the results were 5 rank curs and 1 champion. Some people might call those good odds, but I had not been used to seeing 5 curs in any of our matings for many years, much less 5 that were that short on gameness. Too Tight threw some very rough dogs, and multiple winners. One of his better sons outgunned one of my dogs for :45 with his heavy fire power, and then in a very game and determined come from behind fashion, our dog stopped him by finishing in the kidneys in 1:03. Now, Crocodile and the Pew II stuff may produce a high percentage of game dogs, I don't know about it directly. In a pedigree like that I don't think talent is going to be your challenge, but I would probe the depth gameness well. If you get a real game one bred like that, move forward, that's what we did with our Frisco granddaughter.

[TFX]

Those same guys will say inbreed and then outcross. When that actually works odds are the outcross was better than the animals being inbred. If you have to go over there to get it, one should have been over there from the start. EWO

EWO, the inbreed then outcross breeding philosophy is basically like asking a contractor to build a building, then asking him to partially disassemble it again, or asking a race car driver to take it around the track for 3 turns, and then put it in reverse before crossing the finish line. When you stabilize a gene pool, outcrossing it destroys the whole intent of the beginning effort. People who do this really don't understand genetics well.

[OGDOGG]

I got access to a pup off Gr Ch Garners/GTOs Ceaser who appears to be a good one. I've seen him in person and liked him but never seen him perform. But I guess Gr Ch speaks for itself.

Do some research before you attempt this. ??????

[Kimo615]

That's great info TFX. Seems you have alot of knowledge on Garner dogs. Real knowledge not just hear say or looking at a ped. I do know the Little Gator stuff...Like 4x Black Angel and 1x Joe black are some good dogs. Just not sure how they are as producers. Of course this are BMW's dogs though. Tom really likes that bitch Pew and Pew 2. He uses them often in his program. So far my pup is looking good. But to young to tell Right now I'm gathering as much info as I can on his heritage. I've never ran Chinaman dogs before. The last of my yard got old died on me and I was always a fan of Chinaman himself so I decided to try a new line. Before I ran stuff down from Gr Ch Art...Eli Carver blends and some OFRN stuff.

[Kimo615]

Why do you say that OGDogg? I'm all ears.

[OGDOGG]

I got access to a pup off Gr Ch Garners/GTOs Ceaser who "APPEARS" to be a good one. I've seen him in person and liked him "BUT NEVER" seen him perform. But I "GUESS" Gr Ch speaks for itself.

I believe you already know what I am taking about. Good luck with your pup

[Kimo615]

Subliminal messages....I like it lol. Interesting. No...I was unaware. I just Google his name....found a chat saying he quit in a roll....found just as many saying he didn't. What am I still missing man?

[TFX]

That's great info TFX. Seems you have alot of knowledge on Garner dogs.

I'm no expert on Tom's dogs, but I had a buddy that bought a lot of dogs from Tom in the early 90s. We ended up with a real exceptional female that was half his stuff. The common Coal Cat blood in our yard led me to examine the GR CH Spikey, CH Rebel Yell/Rooster type of dogs from Beach Boy Billy. I turned a friend of mine named Jethro that direction since he already had a splash of it, and he really became the premier breeder of that stuff. Anything from Tom's yard with the Hollingsworth blood blended will be the best of that stuff you can get in my judgment, but there isn't much of it left. The other stuff people have had OK luck with is the Lee Ling, but my buddy had a pair right off Frisco X Lee Ling and they were junk. I have another friend who had a Frisco x Yoko bitch that they have done very well with as a producer. I still don't think the Lee Ling is as good as the Hollingsworth blends. The percentages on the Chinaman/Hollingsworth blends; and the Coal Cat stuff in particular, is actually quite remarkable. Unfortunately, after Jethro was arrested most of those Pencil/Coal Cat dogs are gone. The plan was to cross the Pencil/Coal Cat blood to my Frisco/Coal Cat blood to focus on that extremely high percentage of match dogs that came down from Coal Cat, but real life got in the way such as Jethro getting busted, my partner dying, and it just didn't happen.

[OGDOGG]

Kimo, I commented because you seemed unsure if you wanted that pup off Ceasar. I heard rumors about him. But that's all it is for now. What I am getting at is that you are the one whos gonna make that decision to buy that pup or not. Just make sure it's worth it. Do some research about the dog in question before you make a commitment. If you don't care what anyone thinks then do what you planned on doing. But if you believe In honesty, find out the truth first. I'm not gonna tell you what I don't know for sure cause if I did I'd be lying. Good luck on your quest for the truth.