BREEDING COLD MALES??????

[EWO]

I won't say it can't work. I am saying things she be done in a manner that puts the odds in ones favor. Your excellent bitch can be a starting point, even if she is not from a super-duper family of dogs. It will take more time and the end game will be further down the road but it is possible. Your good bitch to another complete package dog related to her, keep the good ones and go from there. In time, 4-6 generations later there will be solid family to draw from. That is an over simplification and tons of time/work involved. Every good family had to start somewhere and knowing that every dog does not have a pedigree with 100% success rates top to bottom. So with your excellent bitch as a starting point you can go forward. My plan would be to breed her to something that is not only a solid dog but from a family of solid dogs. If you are 1 for 7 in that litter then I would find another bitch.
The jist of successful breeding is putting the odds in ones favor. Sometimes it may be out of the norm, it may involve a cold dog, and sometimes even untested dogs. The key is to have an end goal in mind and be honest with the results and go from there. EWO

jack. Let's say i have only one, but an excellent bitch, bred her once and 6 out of 7 stopped, but she produced 1 one other excellent male. Technically speaking, these 2 excellent dogs would be useless in to a breeding program in your eyes? Unless you breed them with a dog from a more consistent game litter and higher your odds, like EWO mentions, or?

[Officially Retired]

Technically speaking, these 2 excellent dogs would be useless in to a breeding program in your eyes?

It really is as simple as this:

When you're talking match dogs, does a dog's "ability to produce" help you win a fight? No. It doesn't mean a thing. So how much "use" is a dog's sperm quality to his ability to kick ass? Answer = ZERO.

Then why can't you see, just as clearly, that a dog's "ability to win a match" has NOTHING to do with his ability to produce? How does his fighting ability make his sperm better? Answer = IT DOESN'T.

Obviously, the idea is to get good match dogs than CAN consistently produce also ... and the only way to do this, reliably, is to use good match dogs that also come from good litters ... that is the key

So why shoot yourself in the foot by using an animal with mostly-inconsistent genes? The point here is that, IF you have to cut standards, it is better to use a so-so individual from a consistent line than it is to use a great individual from a shit line.

Truly, is "a good bitch" so hard to find for you that you can't just pass one up and use another? I've seen a lot of "good bitches" in my life ... mostly that come from lousy litters ... and so, when I think about talkng about YEARS of my life (time and effort) I would happily walk right by their inconsistent/lousy overall genetics ... to select a good bitch that comes from GREAT genetics to base my yard and efforts on

Not saying you can't do well with breeding any good bitch, if you want to put the time/effort in, but you will be putting yourself at a statistical disadvantage by doing so. Personally, if a dog had so-so genes, it would have to be more than "a good bitch" for me to waste my time like that ... it would have to be ONE HELLUVA good, unbelievable, irreplaceble bitch for me to consider it.

Just my opinion ...

[R2L]

I like your theory Jack. Before i read the article "culling hard or using genetic redirection" all i ever knew was selecting the best to best.
I was just making an example, wish i had 1 excellent bitch, lol. And i never bred a dog, just had my mind on racing for now. But i would like to in the future.


Now these are all "extreme" examples: "breeding the one cold dog out of a whole game litter" because we would have an all game litter to choose from but i see what you're saying!

[EWO]

A young guy I met some years ago was heavy into the chickens. He had made a name for himself with the birds and then it gravitated to the dogs. He did some research, went to the active camps and bought dogs bred really well. Some grown dogs and some younger dogs. He had amassed quite the collection to start with. Every day for a week a young female dog was digging at his fence to play with his dogs. She was about 6 months old. He carried her home. Finally the neighbor told him her son had dropped him off on her and she could not keep her in a pen and did not like the idea of a chain. She offered him the dog, with two bags of feed, a 10X10 kennels, a igloo house and a set of papers. She grew up and got a chance like any other. She stopped everything close to her weight on his yard and everyone else around here too. He was on a path of rolling her to death. An older dog man told him to put her on the chain and call her weight. He did so. The first was a RIP win in :25. The second was the same in about :40. The third was about :45 and expired immediately afterwards. Her fourth was a :25 pick up as it was obvious. This bitch was bred to four really nice stud dogs, dogs that had produced previously and afterwards. She never produced the first bulldog. The reason was her breeding. If you name a bloodline she had it. A guy would have to go way out of his way to get that many famous dogs in one pedigree. She had Bullet to Redboy dogs. She had Frisco to Eli dogs. She had Molly Bee to Mims. She had Kalus Zeke way back as well. Alligator as well. She was a who's who of the dog world. She was such a good bitch i would have bred her hoping for one out of seven but at the same time knowing the odds were most definitely not in my favor. I raised two off her that did not pan out. But like most, I was hoping instead of thinking. EWO

[Officially Retired]

Well, and that great post pretty much says it all ...