Jack were roses siblings "delilah" and "turbo" ever bred? If so how did their offspring do? And were these the only siblings of rose?
Also the breeding of poncho x rosey, and the breeding of thunder to rosey what were the overall similarities between these two breedings (seeing how the are pretty much three quarter siblings)
And finally would the two best overall producers of these two breedings be considered "Chase", and "Razor" like peds indicates?
Also any info on roses win if its not to much trouble.
Don't know what happened to Delilah, as I lost contact with her owner, but she was the smartest, most athletic dog in the litter. (Should have kept her.)
Turbo was a slow, stupid, but pretty rough dog, who hit bleeders every time he was set down. He would always start behind ... he would always struggle to get a hold, and then (once he did get a hold) he would cripple the dog almost immediately and it would be over. After beating LA Dream Team's Blackie Boy, Turbo was brought in real light and just looked like $#!^ and quit to TVK's RE. He was given away as a pet and never bred.
There were two other brothers, Odin and Blockhead, that were awesome specimens and game as hell ... but I lost track with their owners.
Wild Red Rose won 1 for Leon and was a slow, stupid dog with heavy mouth like Turbo also ... but she was much gamer. I think she won in like :40-:50 and Leon told me she'd break legs at the elbow. In school, Rosey also broke the legs of the bitch who had Kitana picked up ...
I understand why you think Chase and Razor were the best producers from those respective litters, but they weren't, they were just two of the many good producers in that litter. As physical specimens and individuals go, Hornet & Whitehead were my favorite males in that litter, not Chase; Chase was actually the "last pick" of that litter. I don't think Chase was match-worthy, while his brother Whitehead went on to win in 1:20 but I lost track of him. Whitehead also won international BIS for his conformation. Hornet was also a physical specimen (before he got fat), but he was only bred once ... yet from his only breeding he produced Ch Mr. Serious ROM, Boots (another producer of Champions), and Mr. Cho (who died crawling DG at only 16 months when facing a Champion). IMO Mr. Serious was a better dog out of Hornet's only breeding than ever came out of Chase from many breedings. This is not to disrespect Chase, he was a game dog and good producer, but IMO he was a far cry from "the best" dog in that litter. He just got bred more.
Same with Razor. Razor was actually the "ugly duckling" in her litter compared to Sassy and Thunder Rose. However, I do think Razor was smarter and faster than they were. Razor was a super-bred bitch, just like the sisters, but what made her produce those dogs was also the fact she was bred to Hero. Hero was IMO the best (or one of the 2 best) males out of that litter, and so he played a vital role in the quality of that Ch Miagi / Ch Pierce litter too. Thunder Rose never got bred (as far as I know), but Sassy produced a badass dog named Leavenworth's Jasper 2xW bred to Waccamaw's Ch Yellow John, who lost his third only because he broke his jaw early on a freak collision ... but yet still went out screaming game in 1:10 to a dog he couldn't even mouth for the whole deal. He would be a Champion had that not happened. Sassy also produced PonchoBack 2xW who was an ace head dog, but who happened to face a devastating dog for #2 (that he beat) but whose mouth was so horrible he couldn't survive afterward, even from just a few bites. I am sure Kilo's Gorilla Girl would be tough to beat at her best weight also, but has never been done.
Lots of times fate (and who ends up with the dogs) determines whether they get matched or not, as well as what level of competition they face when they do go out.
Jack
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Thank you for the reply jack, very insightful. Wasn't trying to discredit any of these dogs either as they have ALL done great.
How many pups did zipper actually have? And could you tell me a little about her pups? How did roxanne compare to pup pup?
I am not trying to discredit any of them either, just correcting the assumption you had that the dogs you mentioned were "the best"; they weren't.Originally Posted by Ipk
Unfortunately, Zipper was the worst in the litter. I liked her intensity as a pup, but she came out long-bodied and unathletic. Pup Pup was a late-starting, average, game dog ... who made lousy moves ... but proved deeply-game regardless. My dogs almost never make bad moves, so I never really trusted Pup Pup's gameness, despite seeing it. He was NOTHING compared to Stormbringer, and really doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence with him. My gut feel proved correct, as every single dog off of Pup Pup either wouldn't start, or quit, which was a shame because Pup Pup was bred well "on paper."
Fittingly, Pup Pup had a brother named Iron Mike who never started and was put down. The sister Roxanne had a defective foot and was not very athletic at all either, so Zipper's percentages were horrible. (I don't know if this defective foot was genetic, or because of ricketts, because Leon's care wasn't the best). Anyway, when Leon went to jail and I got some of these dogs back, I tried going "out" and bred Zipper to Waccamaw's Bud, and I got a male named Buddy Boy, and (as far as I know) he never started either. So the worst one in that Poncho/Rosey litter was my Zipper bitch, who was actually game ... but who couldn't throw a first-class dog to save her life ... and who died young from eating metal, which (judging by her pups) was probably a good thing.
Zipper produced the worst, and lowest-percentage pocket of blood in the history of my yard and I I hate to say it but am glad it is gone
Jack
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Thank you again, as this has been great info to read.
(And again I feel I should point out that it wasn't my personal assumption. Merely phrased it that way due to razor and chase being the only ones listed with POR, ROM on peds.)
so what became of bronco and igor?
My pleasure
Which means you assumed they were "the best" because of the titles on a pedigree
The truth is, they could ALL produce way above average, except for Zipper.
Don't know what went wrong with her, but Zipper was just a dud, whereas every other dog in her litter produced phenomenally-good percentages.
Jack
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So every dog off of Pup Pup didn't start or quit am I reading this right? So Painted Puppy? Lil Poncho? P'Cola ? all of them dogs where curs? Well I guess I cant say cur if they don't start is that the proper etiquette, Now I new Bolo was cold and I took a big chance getting a pup off him but he could produce from what I hear and what I know. This is a very disappoint ment to hear this about Pup Pup and the dogs he produced that's alot of dogs, well I no it's part of life. Just something for me to stop and think about is all came as a suprise to me, but thanks for the info.
Painted Puppy did not quit, but his brothers Lightning and Jason quit. P'Cola was average but did not quit, as far as I know, however her sister was cold. And, yes, Bolo was cold ... and I told you this ... and, if I remember right, the main reason you bough his son was for the mere $300 price, and their history is why they were only $300. As I told you, I doubled-up on the game Pup Pup (and he was extremely game), and I did this to see what I would get as a breeding experiment. You say your dog is good, so it seems like the experiment worked.
It was simply the lowest percentage stuff I had, but a few were good.
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