Red Boy / Jocko Families

[Officially Retired]

Breeding for "the total package" is an admirable goal, but most dogs simply are not the total package, but wind up having strengths and weaknesses. Naturally, the ones that get shown are going to have to have more strengths than weaknesses

As a breeder, I quickly realized that I have to make my dogs possess strong points in areas that do not rely on human conditioning. For this reason, I have always bred for extreme speed, athleticism, and intelligence. Things you can't condition for. The reason is, when you sell dogs, you have to factor-in the possibility for owner error. No amount of conditioning (or human stupidity) can make a dog more intelligent or dumber; he is either smart or he is not. Therefore, if I create dogs that are much smarter than the average dog, then I am ahead of the game right there. Same with speed and natural reflexes, athleticism, etc. You canNOT condition for speed, timing, or reflexes. Sure, you can sharpen these things, but basic speed/timing etc. is either there or it's not. Now, you *can* condition for strength (and you *can* mess that up by bringing in a dog too light, etc.), but true freak strength is genetic and is what I used my Coca Cola dogs for (and later Silverback).

Anyway, the bottom line is this: a dog has to have the tools for the job ... and the intelligence to use those tools in the right way for the right opponent

I agree that watching super-strong dogs annihilate an opponent is an awesome thing to watch. However, not every dog can BE "annihilated." When you get in there and draw a bulldog, the contest isn't going to be over with in :20 to :30 min ... it's going to go awhile ... and your dog will have to be able to pace itself, to realize "he's drawn something" this time, and he's going to have to have the will, the plan b/c/d (as Evo said) + the staying power to prevail in the end. Part of staying power is going to be conditioning, but part of that is also going to be style, smarts, and willpower. Lotta intangibles come into play in the trenches ...

Anyway, I personally chose the alternate handle "SmileWiper" precisely because my dogs could nearly always be counted on to reverse an early lead and be victorious when the smoke cleared. Poncho dogs were 8.5x out of 10 able to assess the opponent, to systematically dismantle it as time progressed, and (most importantly) they were absolutely willing to go the full route ... slowly wiping that "early smile" off the other owner's face ... and leaving both standing in the corner on that last scratch.

Naturally, those dogs of mine that were "the total package" were my favorites ... but sometimes the unbelievably tough, come-from-behind-and-getcha dogs were too ... like Secretariat ... you thought you were ahead the whole time ... until you rounded the last stretch ... which is where he'd really pour it on

Jack

[Steeldog]

That's funny. I always wondered how you chose the handle "Smilewiper".

[bently]

personally i think that the jake the snake hounds are very excepitional when not to inbred, but crossed with another strain of rbj. and that goes for all termite stuff, i dont like it too inbred, but prefer it with an out.

some of the best tant stuff i seen, just from my experience where coming down from the toe jam dog. very all around, durbible dogs.

i have family with waccamaw stuff, so i know. i will say that the one that he had right off of bj was very game but that's about it. The dog he had off of the bj3 dogs was very good, all around great bulldog!. the ones he are working with as we speak are very game, with some average mouth, and some with above average mouth but he loves there style. and i can tell you if you dont kill them, you not coming out of there alive. cause i have NEVER! seen a wacc hound stand the line.

honestly the dogs from wacc are great dogs, but when crossed with a different strain of rbj just makes them that much better!

The burns hounds i seen where nothing special but i will say that because i feel that the burns dogs are bred so tight, and people are treating them as a preservation line only breeding them to other burns dogs, that they dont make them any better than what they were 10 years ago.

hope this helps you out.

[swampdawg]

theres some people having alot of success crossing the Burns line with boyles/bolio blood.Its workn,just gotta know whete to look.

[bently]

theres some people having alot of success crossing the Burns line with boyles/bolio blood.Its workn,just gotta know whete to look.

thats what am saying. i know the ones i seen where pure burns top and bottom and to me they where nothing special. i supose that when u cross it to some working stock it should have great results and that goes for any line , but inbred they were not impressing

[swampdawg]

Nothing impresses me about any line or family,but when cross'em out thats when it gets fun.Thats why were in dogs.

[ragedog10]

In the late 90 s had a lot of Redboy x Jocko and also had em crossed with Chinaman x Nigerino, they were durable well rounded with a lot of air and finish. Coming thru the AAA blood, good front to back hunters.

[swampdawg]

Best rbj families r the ones that have Crosses in them.Most pure today r foundation.

[Officially Retired]

Nothing impresses me about any line or family,but when cross'em out thats when it gets fun.Thats why were in dogs.

My own experience is exactly the opposite.

The truth is, any bozo can "make a cross" with two linebred dogs he purchased from someone else's lifetime commitment to keeping a pure line competitive. That is why every beginner on earth "crosses" dogs, while most of the truly good, longstanding dogmen on earth are always busy maintaining a pure family bloodline ... which should be clue enough for a smart dogman to figure out, ultimately, what the best way to go is to get consistent results

Further, even though I recognize that there are dozens of great outcrossed matchdogs, mostly because that is what most folks breed-up (and which, by the way, even when produced by good dogman are typically matched precisely because they're not as valuable as the good family-bred dogs that are kept at home for breeding ), I have seldom seen any outcross dogs I've sold that can whip the best of the inbred dogs I've kept at home.

As proof for this, when used as box dogs there are very few outcross individuals that have achieved the same success as family-bred individuals such as Gr Ch Buck (7xW), Gr Ch Zebo (7xW), Gr Ch Tornado (10xW), Gr Ch Happy Jack (5xW), Gr Ch Sir Dog (7xW), etc.

And, finally, even the best and most important outcrossed performance dogs, like Gr Ch Yellow (6xW), still required 2 inbred dogs to produce them ... and the very first thing a good dogman does, when he produced a badass outcross like Yellow, is to begin a family-breeding program around them

So you might want to re-think the value of family breeding

Jack

[CYJ]

From what little I saw of the Medlin dogs. Seems one trait was staying on the nose and head. Any of you that have heavy Medlin crossed into your Jocko/Red Boy dogs. Does your line of dogs have a preference to stay on the head and nose? Just curious.