View Poll Results: Is the Formation of a Bond Vital to Success?

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  • Forming a Bond is Vital to Success

    34 62.96%
  • Forming a Bond is an "Intangible" Element, that may (or may not) affect Success

    17 31.48%
  • Forming a Bond has nothing to do with Success

    3 5.56%
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Thread: THE IMPORTANCE OF A BOND BETWEEN MAN & DOG (Yes / No)

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Hand View Post
    Some animals do not need anything but food and water lol.
    There have been some dogs that have been down right neglected not just emotionally but I mean really neglected. Parasites, not being fed, etc.Animals that still proved to be great even though they were neglected and their owners idea of bringing one in properly was starving them down!
    There is a major difference between what a dog needs to achieve its best performance and what it "can get away with" and still win ...

    Every dog craves attention from its owner, and every dog needs basic care in order to perform at its best ... but some dogs are so good genetically that they can still "get away with" not having these needs met and yet still defeat average dogs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Black Hand View Post
    I think its all individual based and dogs on both end of the spectrum can be equally successful.
    I disagree that someone who totally neglects his dogs will be "equally successful" as a man of the same technical savvy and eye, who gives his dogs everything they need.

    No way that works out on a large scale.



    Quote Originally Posted by Black Hand View Post
    So in return of you not going that extra mile could mean you having to cull what couldve been everything you ever wanted in an animal.
    Agreed.



    Quote Originally Posted by Black Hand View Post
    I dont like to deal with shy dogs simply because of the mind state.
    Very few dogs, worked properly as pups all the way into adulthood, are truly shy. (I realize a small few are shy, regardless).

    Overall, most shy dogs are dogs that have simply been neglected by negligent owners, who don't bother to socialize their young dogs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Black Hand View Post
    I like a dog to think he is gods gift to this world.
    Agreed. I think a true bulldog is not a shy animal at all, but a fearless and confident animal. But even a fearless and confident animal still does better when fully-socialized and when having a good bond with his owner.

    Mohammed Ali was a great athlete and a great fighter. Maybe he could whip 99% of all men alive, even if he didn't train, wasn't at his best weight, wasn't fed the best food, and didn't have Angelo Dundee in his corner. But when he faced the very best in the world, then he damned sure benefited from having all his duckies in a row in these critical "intangible" categories

    By the same token, Sugar Ray Leonard could have whipped most of his opponents with any trainer, but when he was losing to Hearns in the 13th round of their first fight, again the key element of a World Class trainer with whom he had a great relationship fired Leonard up enough to take it to Hearns in the 14th and have the fight stopped.

    So yeah, when you're talking about superior bulldogs genetically, sure they can whip average dogs without too much else besides food and water ... same as the greatest boxers ever can (and have) whipped average palookas ... but when any fighter (man or dog) faces another truly elite fighter, then "the intangibles" are going to kick in more-and-more ... who is at their very best weight, who has trained the hardest, who has been eating the most optimal diet, who is hydrated optimally for the long haul, who truly has a good bond with their trainer and can be revitalized and pumped-up in the corner, etc., etc.

    If anyone remembers the difference in commitment, energy, and drive in Mike Tyson (when he had Cus D'Amato and Jimmy Jacobs in his corner, men he deeply admired and with whom he totally bonded) ... and the POS Tyson became when those men died and were replaced by brainless puppets ... the difference in Tyson's realized potential was literally night and day

    Jack

  2. #52
    In my experience shyness has nothing to do with quality. Sure they need more work. Have seen plenty of "I own the world" kind of bulldogs getting beaten by what people consider a time wasting shy dog. I totally understand why people don't like shy dogs. It's not a trait I consider a good thing either. But some dogs are just born with low self esteem. I have had it, and mine were absolutely not neglected. Some blood are more known for it's shyness. It's just a bit more work with socialisation.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by skipper View Post
    In my experience shyness has nothing to do with quality. Sure they need more work. Have seen plenty of "I own the world" kind of bulldogs getting beaten by what people consider a time wasting shy dog. I totally understand why people don't like shy dogs. It's not a trait I consider a good thing either. But some dogs are just born with low self esteem. I have had it, and mine were absolutely not neglected. Some blood are more known for it's shyness. It's just a bit more work with socialisation.
    I agree, it does tend to be a bloodline thing, but I have seen plenty of shy dogs (with people) who lost their shyness as soon as they saw another dog ...

    However, dogs that can get spooked while in the box are eggshells that can be broken ...

    Jack

  4. #54
    Thats true. Some dogs are just too shy. As with everything else there are degrees of shyness. My point is that in the right hands a shy dog that otherwise maybe would be culled gets to show the qualities it possess. Which should be every dogmens goal, to bring the best out of every damn dog you get.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by skipper View Post
    Thats true. Some dogs are just too shy. As with everything else there are degrees of shyness. My point is that in the right hands a shy dog that otherwise maybe would be culled gets to show the qualities it possess. Which should be every dogmens goal, to bring the best out of every damn dog you get.
    There is a paradox of truth here: 1) on the one hand, the best dogmen are those who are able to bring out the best in every dog ... and intuitively "know" how to handle each one as a unique animal ... while the common idiot will ruin many dogs and can only do will with a "fool-proof" dog. And yet the flipside to this is the fact 2) the best DOGS are those who don't necessarily need kid gloves to do well, their very metal hardiness makes them able to overcome a variety of ownership inequities, and NOT be wholly dependent on being in "top hands" to do well.

    As a breeder, I strive to make my dogs "foolproof" ... dogs that are confident no matter what, dogs that can go along time with or without a good keep, etc. I have had a couple of truly badass dogs that were later sold, but did not acclimate to their new owners well, and things didn't turn out so well ... and I personally feel more confident sending a dog that really could give a shit about his environment, he just (as Black Hand says) thinks he owns the world that he's standing on, regardless of whose hands he's in.

    Jack

  6. #56
    Very true. Most dogmen blame the dogs for their lack of accomplishments. It never occurs to them that it might be their fault their dogs never turn out. The dogs get sent back to their breeder with the words they are garbage dogs. The breeder are still able to win into top comp with the very same dogs. This is why it is so important that you know what you are working with.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by skipper View Post
    Very true. Most dogmen blame the dogs for their lack of accomplishments. It never occurs to them that it might be their fault their dogs never turn out. The dogs get sent back to their breeder with the words they are garbage dogs. The breeder are still able to win into top comp with the very same dogs. This is why it is so important that you know what you are working with.
    Good post.

  8. #58
    I Vote for a bond with ones athlete opposed to having a chain brain

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