Every line playsout sooner or later and has to be outcrossed.U cant keep inbreeding but so long.I have had yellow dogs close to 20 yrs. and do not see what I saw 10 yrs ago.maybe I dont know how to breed dogs but have been outcrossing to bolio/boyles blood the last few yrs and am getting more of what im looking for.Could also be my taste in qualities has changed as I get older.
thats a good crossOriginally Posted by swampdawg
Maybe you were breeding the wrong two.(yellow dogs) ours still hunt just as good as they did .but we had a strict plan.we do have a few that have a little out.i do like red boy jocko x eli,but no matter how the dog is bred a good dog is a good dog
I had a bitch some years back that was straight Medlins Charlie (out of Outlaw). She had some Bolio there as well. She was freak strong with freaky mouth. Just loved 'socializing' with other dogs, winning or losing, top or bottom, just loved being there. Dumb as a stump. If she wanted the rear she would not take anything but a beating til she got there but when she did it was pretty much over. She had five brothers that were face machines. None bit quite like her but would get between the eyes/top of the muzzle and grind right there all night if need be. These dogs were all face fighting game dogs. The one Ch. out of the litter was the one with the least amount of mouth of the litter. He would get the top of the muzzle, tuck his legs, suck in his chest and make his neck look like it was two feet long. He could not be touched but he was doing some touching. Real nice litter.
I can't give an opinion on the entire family but we had 6 of the 7 from this litter and five of 7 were face getters. EWO
Lines do play out over time but the primary reason is not inbreeding or outcrossing. Lines play out because the wrong people are breeding the right dogs or the right people are breeding the wrong dogs, and the fastest way out is the wrong people breeding the wrong dogs. If I had bought Yellow dogs 20 years ago my dogs and your dogs would be "Yellow" dogs but because more than likely we would see different things we would have different strains of "Yellow". Waccamaw RBJ is not a cookie cutter version of Tant RBJ or Burns, etc..etc.. People add variables.
With that said, I am a fan of the Bolio/Boyles RBJ dogs. There is a cat around here that has a Boyles/Sin City male on top of AAA/Toe Jam/Chucky bitch and the litter looks top notch across the board at 20-22 months. So I can see where one is going with those dogs as well. EWO
That would be a nice subject on its own.
Many people call their dog a particular line ONLY based on the pedigree.
Guaranteed you're going to breed the wrong individuals if anything was left of it already.
I do try to learn if that what the pedigree is telling, is the truth.
Though truth is not always easy to find through all these moneymakers. Won't call any names
Great sentence there.
The key to maintaining a bloodline is simply SELECTION followed by DEDICATION. Period.
When trying to maintain a line, people who have no breeding ability breed all the ability out of their dogs, and so they tend to blame the line. They also quit and run to something else, or they try some new "crapshoot cross," never really sticking with anything.
Waccamaw is an example of someone who is the opposite. They have consistently bred game, winning dogs ... year-after-year ... using the same line ... and have been successful all the way. As he admits, some of his dogs come out goofy, but so what? You just breed a different way is all, you don't give up, and very soon you will breed in the RIGHT direction and move forward again with more badass dogs.
I too have been breeding the same line, down from the same core stock (that was already linebred for 35 year) for 23 years myself. My percentage win record when I started was 57% ... and when I finished last year it was in the upper-80th percentile ... which it has been kept at for over 10 years (since 2002) ... and I still have good news coming, even now, with wins from the last breedings I ever made, all of which were intense line- and inbreedings.
Honestly, I have bred deeper into my line of dogs than 99.999% of anyone who has ever owned a bulldog in the history of our sport, so I am not talking based on "theory," but based on actual experience and knowledge. Another thing is, damned near every dog my linebred dogs have whipped was an outcross, so NO ONE will convince me that inbreeding "ruins abiliy." That is pure, fabricated bullshit from people who don't know what they're talking about ... OR ... from people who inbred on the wrong dogs.
Sure, I have made inbreedings and gotten shitty dogs with no ability, but again so what? They still were game. The worst pieces of inconsistent, cur shit I have ever got were outcrosses. True, so too have some of the baddest dogs I have ever bred been outcrosses, but consistency-wise there is no substitute for in- and linebreeding on the right dogs
For those who might be interested, here is an example of how I managed to make some (initially) shitty inbreedings ... and some initially great inbreedings ... and kept re-directing the produced dogs back to excellence with new inbreedings ... and in so doing turned game, inbred retards back into fantastic dogs again ...
Okay, I inbred Poncho to his sister Missy and got this retard of a dog named Phoenix. Phoenix couldn't whip a puppy, but he was durable as hell. His skin was so thick he almost never got a hole put into him, even when rolled uphill several pounds. I sold him to Leon, and he stopped a lot of dogs on nothing but scratching, but was pretty much always bottom dog.
Meanwhile I again inbred Poncho, this time to his daughter Screamer, and got the best bitch I ever bred in my life named Jezebel. If you bit Jezebel once, you did a good job. If you bit her twice you were something. She was strong as hell, fast as hell, smart as hell, and she could bite. Well, I did a super-tight inbreeding of Phoenix to Jezebel and I got another inbred retard named Perfect. Perfect was worse than Phoenix, and a lot of people would have given up there and cut their losses ... but not me. Why? Because Perfect also had some badass littermates (Stone Cold and Zephyr) who were matchworthy, badass dogs. And, even though Perfect was a retard, she was built like a Brick Shit House.
So what did I do?
Okay, meanwhile, Poncho and Missy had another sister named Ruby, and she was bred back to her son Roy Jones Jr. to get my inbred bitch Tuffy. Tuffy was a fierce, nasty bitch ... but she had the worst air I have ever seen so I bred Tuffy to Jezebel's super-game, super-longwinded brother Duke Nukem ... and I got the all-around excellent, longwinded, hardmouthed stud dog U-Nhan-Rha.
Well, because the ace Jezebel and the longwinded Duke were out of an all-game litter, where every dog had great air and perfect conformation, I doubled-up on these dogs by doing yet another inbreeding, this time of U-Nhan-Rha to Perfect ... and the result was an all-game litter of match-worthy dogs, including Ch Red Bull and Iceman (3xW, 1xGL) ... representing possibly the tightest breeding I have ever done ... and a culmination of multiple generations of tight breedings, all on the same 3 littermates (Poncho/Missy/Ruby).
The last dog matched off of one of my breedings, which happened earlier this year, was another intensely linebred dog Wildchild's 007 (off U-Nhan-Rha's sister Twilight, a double-inbred Poncho/Ruby bitch, bred to Silverback triple-bred on their daddy Ch Hammer, and right off Missy, the sister to Poncho/Ruby) ... and 007 came off the floor to peel the face off his opponent in :27. His brother Prime Ape has spotted weight and finished bigger dogs in :12.
So, please, don't anyone tell me that "inbreeding ruins ability" ... because it simply does not
What people do is GIVE UP TOO EASY.
Another thing they do is expect aces in every litter. That just doesn't happen.
Sometimes, yes, you will get game retards, but as long as your dogs stay deeply game, and retain conformation, you can re-direct them back to athletic excellence once again with subsequent breeding steps.
The trouble is most people keep thinking "the grass is greener" somewhere else. They don't have the confidence to realize that (provided you start out with truly good stock), if you really get to know what you're working with, you can create solid, respectable (and sometimes fabulous) dogs for as long as you're alive and never need to outcross one time.
Jack
Right
Jack said, "The key to maintaining a bloodline is simply SELECTION followed by DEDICATION". "Period".
...I'll ride to the bank with that statement. make your mind up, strap it up an in.
I think maintaining a line today is harder to do as it takes alot of dogs to have that selection of traits ur looking for,but alot of dogs will get attention from the wrong people.Times have changed and u have to adapt to them.I have given alot of my stock to 2 other people that are doing the same thing im doing as far as outcrossing goes.
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