In terms of having dogs that people took and went their own way with having success creating their own line. Not the guy that sold the most puppies or made the most money.
In terms of having dogs that people took and went their own way with having success creating their own line. Not the guy that sold the most puppies or made the most money.
For me it would be too hard to call. I do not think I could actually do a top five because the #6 guy is just about as deserving as the first five. I am partial to the Redboy dogs. Redboy had as much impact as any other. Redboy himself, then the Medlins Outlaw strain. There is no Redboy-Jocko without Redboy. There are no Cottingham dogs. Whitleys. Robinsons. Marlowes. Hollands. Mims. Baileys. No Mayday dogs. No Jeep-Redboy dogs. The list can go on and on.
With that said. I could start with Bolio and get to the Buck dogs and do the same. Or with Dibo. etc. etc. The Eli family tree as well. I could not say any one of the major families has had any more impact than the other, nor their breeders. If I said Patrick, he would have a large amount of support and at the same time he would have just as many detractors. Same with Beaudreaux. Carver. Tudor. Mims. Interesting topic though and I look forward to others opinions. I sort of fence ride on this one. EWO
Back about 1993, Ed Faron started running a pedigree program called CompUPed, that could do reverse-pedigree searches that would list the total # of champions down from Dog X, Y, Z, etc., spanning (I think) 7 generations. He used to sell this information.Originally Posted by Wise
At the time he did so, the dog with the greatest # of Champions down from it (7-generations-deep) was Boudreaux' Eli followed by Indian Bolio. There are, literally, thousands of winners down from these dogs. I know that Redboy is now the big thing, but without Bolio there are no Mayday dogs either, nor any Boyles' dogs (which have oodles of ROMs/Chs, etc.), my dogs, Buck dogs, Hollingsworth dogs, etc.
Who gets the credit for these dogs? Patrick? Carver? Boudreaux?
I would have to say, impact-wise, Tudor, and especially Carver, Boudreaux, Patrick, Chavis, and Tant would be the top-6. Many people could make a powerful argument for Colby and Crenshaw, too.
However, to narrow it down to one breeder would be almost impossible, but if I had to I'd have to say Maurice Carver was the most influential, foundation-dog-creating breeder ever.
Jack
maurice carver,earl tudor
Mr. Egan Skinner who knew most of the older foundation breeders. Told me one day while we were talking dogs. That he felt Maurice Carver has had the greatest impact on the up coming dog blood lines of the 70's etc. Would probably go down as the greatest breeder of our times since Colby, Corvino, Lightner, and Tudor. Some of the best La Cream of the crop M. Carver dogs were those bred in the early 70's-80's.
Over time I too felt the same. At the end of my dog breeding plans. I was working on a Carver Bullyson-Art's Missy blend. I had let V.J. run with what we had bred over the past years. My cross to this Bully Son-Art's Missy line was hopefully going to be to a good Bolio line, but preferably to a Tudor's Red Bill bloodline.
Jim Usleton knew the value of this Tudor's bloodline for crossing to other good bloodlines. He offered to help Clayton with trying to save the Sampson dog after the bout with Hooten's Butcher Boy dog. Sadly he accidently got shot and crippled in one leg for his troubles from a bad misunderstanding with Clayton.
When I was getting into the dog game in the early 70's. I got to see some of the first M. Carver dogs that hit the N.C. and S.C. dog scene. The M. Carver dogs fast became popular in Florida and Georgia along with J. Carver's bloodlines. The total dog game started making a radical change in the Southeast. These Carver dogs showed up with mouth and the tensile strength of a Bear. The conditioning-feed methods was different and the older methods of matching dried out dogs on bottom weight would not work against these dogs.
Lester Hughes thought L. Pratt had lost his mind when he opened up a jar of beef broth and fed it to Vindicator around the 12 or 6 hour mark before the Bo bout. He asked what Lonzo was doing. Lonzo replied I am feeding my dog. Dried out dogs will not fair too well today in hard pulling competition
For those that have manage to keep some straight bred M.Carver or tight Bolio bloodlines. You have some of the best breeding stock available today. But still have to apply good selection and common sense culling. If they key back to a heavy Tudor's Dibo- Tudor's Minnie- Boudreaux-Blind Billy influence better give them a least 2 1/2 years to be fully matured in the mind.
Just some of my thoughts and there were other great breeders like Hernandez, E. Crenshaw that bred dogs along with M. Carver. M. Carver had the talent to take good dogs off their yards and blend them to his own. From what Pete Sparks/H. Teal /E. Skinner told. M. Carver even introduced some of Peggy Harper's Tacoma-Doyle bred staffs into his line.
Was told when she got one that was too fight crazy. Would give her down the road neighbor Maurice a call. He would take the dog and check out it's oil. Passed the test to M. Carver's satisfaction. Would breed them. Being this was a told thing and did not see personally. Could be true or not. My Chuck dog that was Carver-Creel breeding, Brewer's Snooty, Davis's Boomerang some of Sorrells dogs looked good enough to show.
Last edited by CYJ; 07-23-2013 at 05:14 PM. Reason: spelling
CYJ,would this be the same Mr.Skinner from Chas.SC?
Good Thread
Hello Swampdog, that was the Mr. Egan Skinner I was referring to. Before Mr. Skinner moved to Charleston, he had lived in N.C. He had bred up a line of old family Lightner dogs crossed to the Bullet dog owned by Bill Cotton. Mr. Teal matched two of them being Teal's Tip and Teal's Susie Q. One of the dogs related to his dogs was Crenshaw's Sad Sack. That played a part in the Carver line of dogs.
You will see another of his dogs called Skinner's, Shivar's or Lopasay's Beanie. Beanie is listed in some of the best producing lines of Lopasay dogs. When I knew Mr. Skinner he was up in age and had lost his best dogs back in N.C. from a bad flash flooding in the area. His property was on a creek.
Mr. Skinner was a lot of fun to be around and liked to give R.Braddock,V.Jackson,Scotty Todd.J. Spruill and self a lot of ribbing about all those curs we were feeding. I asked him one time why he wanted us to roll dogs every time he came to visit. His reply was he was not going to live much longer and wanted to see all the dog action he could. LOL I enoyed his stories about Bob Wallace,Edwards,Earl Tudor,Hemphill,Bill Lightner,George Saddler,Mike Ferris and many other dog men he personally knew in his life time.
Another N.C. transplant to Charleston that was good friends with E. Skinner and self was Scotty Todd. Scotty at that time was a good dog man and a great night club singer. Scotty later got out the dogs and became a Preacher back in N.C. Scotty and self one time went on a dog hunt venture for some of the last old Lightner bred dogs. Scotty knew all the N.C. dog men and run down a nice little brindle bitch called Mousy. Was the last of her kind. Tar Heel Matt remembers a lot about that. Seems Matt may have had a old stud dog of similar or same Lightner breeding but was to old to breed to. Mousy may have been a descendant off that dog.
Eagan asked Scotty to breed Mousy to my Red Nose-Red Brindle Coplin bred Geronimo dog when V.J. had him on his yard. Breeding was made, but a cur dog got to Mousy and bred her as well. That was a lost cause. Egan not long after that passed away. Later Scotty did breed Mousy to my later owned Carver-Creel bred Chuck dog. Saw one of the bitches and a Male. But do not know what became of that litter. The Charleston boys got hush hush about that breeding and never found out what happen to Mousy or what dog men ended up with the dogs. I wanted one of the bitches real bad at the time.
Mr. Skinner and H. Teal were fast friends along with Mr. Medlin and many other older dog men. It was Mr. Skinner,myself and my now deceased first wife that went with Mr. Teal to the dog show matches in Georgia. The one that Mr. Teal had the heart attack at. Mr. Teal made us drive him all the way back to his home in N.C. Would not go to a emergency medical hospital.
Was a long trying ride back home and his Doctor was very mad with him. Had done way more damage to his heart than necessary. Mr. Teal did not live long after that episode.
The Lightner strain that Mr. Eagan Skinner had bred up was off some of the brindle Bill Lightner dogs blended to some of Edward's/Plemmon's Red Nose Lightner dogs. This cross came Fawn buckskin with black mask, light and dark brindle and some red nose ones as well. When crossed to the Cotton's Bullet dog that pretty well set the strain of dogs he was going to use.
Mostly came in dark and light brindles and Fawn. Had those lappy Lightner ears. Very good acting dogs in the lower 45 to 30 pound weight class.
I agree with most of y'all but I will go with the triple c's on this one Colby , Crenshaw and Caver and i have to put in Mr Boudreaux but if I had to pick 1 will go with Mr Colby IMO
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