mayfield or lemm

[EWO]

When I was 11-12 I was a 'professional' dog walker. My best friend's dad always had two or three going. He had the jenny/turn table combo set up and a slat mill. He would run the dogs on the mill or the table or the jenny. When they were done he gave them to me and off I went on a predetermined course. He ran the next dog and then his son was off with that one. I walked so far and the chain was laying by the path. I hook up, pull it to a certain spot, drop it and along came C. and he hooked up and did his pull. By the time I got back he was ready for the next mill/jenny/table sessions. Then repeat. Around that field he had surveying sticks with different color tapes. Some days it was the pink course and the next day the orange course. It was quite the setup.

He had a food concoction he used for the keep but I have no idea what it was as a kid. I do remember he fed Field Trial from Winn Dixie as a regular feed. I am amazed those dogs lived on that stuff as I have learned a lot about feed since then. No lie. We filled two buckets half way with Field Trial. Filled the two five gallon buckets with water til the food floated to the top. Within an hour those two buckets would be mounded over with food (canned food consistency). Each dog got half a scoop. To swell up like that it had to have been straight crap. Damn near gravy flavored card board. Times have changed in that area as well.


Times were different back then. Coming off the farm we were use to working and doing, and that sometimes meant doing adult type tasks as a kid. Same with the dogs. My kid played with the pups at that age but I never sent him off walking in the woods with a dog like I did when I was that age. My wife barely wanted mine around a riding mower and at the same age I was pulling tobacco slides up and down the road with 140. Times have changed. EWO

[ToTheDogs]

Lemns keep is straight garbage. I bought into it and followed it to a T. Ended up with weak hounds with zero strength. That being said there is nothing better than free conditoning.

[CYJ]

EWO you mentioned Field Trial dog food and another was Jim Dandy. Back then those local dog food companies used a lot of whole Horse and Cows etc. in the mix. Would just grind up the whole animal. Then mix it all up some way. You could see the hair parts and bone meal in the meat pellet part of the feed.

Dogs seemed to do well on that older feed. Had laetrile in the vitamin mix. Never saw dogs with Cancer back then. Later after the Laetrile was removed. The newer super dupper type dog foods hit the market. Started seeing cancer and many other ailments cropping up. After several years of feeding that Diamond dog food. My older dogs started falling apart.

Today the Vets are treating dogs with Human disease like conditions. Never heard of such way back when. Our main problem was heart worms and fleas. Later the Fire ants showed up. Cheers

[EWO]

Now that you mention it, it did have 'parts' in the chunks. I can remember the 'parts' in a chunk of dog food from thirty plus years ago but could not really tell you what I had for supper last night. I guess the dogs did pretty good on it. His hunting dogs performed well and he would get one off the chain at a moments notice. EWO

[R2L]

Lemns keep is straight garbage. I bought into it and followed it to a T. Ended up with weak hounds with zero strength. That being said there is nothing better than free conditoning.

Can you say what it is you think that fucked up your dogs? Or do you simply think there is not enough strength training integrated in lemmens keep?

I don't know what kind of dogs lemmens was feeding, i can imagine someone with a line who are strong naturally or depending on fighting style, would consider strength training less important. Doesn't mean its a good keep for all dogs.

About interval training on the mill, I think you have to have good eye for when its enough of "all out" for the particular dog on the mill, in the particular stage of keep. Same counts for recovery. When you leave the room or show the dog a bait or animal they might give more then they supposed too. When these dogs scratch with 2 broken legs, why would you count on them to indicate muscle pain or overloaded ligament.

[kcc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbfEHoBTD_U

[S_B]

Lemns keep is straight garbage. I bought into it and followed it to a T. Ended up with weak hounds with zero strength. That being said there is nothing better than free conditoning.

I don't think Lemm's keep is garbage, although I do think there are improvements that can be made. The recovery and cooling he speaks of is very important, and it is clear he knows a thing or two about how a dog is performing while working. If you end up with weak dogs you've missed, not necessarily the keep. The most important aspect of any conditioning program is knowing your animal, and it is probably the hardest to learn.

While I like "free conditioning" I certainly wouldn't only rely on it. I believe it is best to train all the muscle groups as best you can.

S_B

[EWO]

I have always liked these topics.

I have watched both videos, listened and read as much as I can. With either it would have been great to sit down, and not just talk about dogs but actually watch them run a dog thru the paces.

Like anything, I don't fully agree with either down to the "T", but both have a lot of good things to offer. Sort of like feeding a bulldog. One can go to the research areas and find a lot of information concerning feeding every kind of performance dog other than a bulldog. One has to find what parts are similar and then give them a try. A bulldog dog may need the speed prep of a grey hound and at the same need the strength of a pulling dog and on top of that at times he may need the endurance of a sled dog. The bulldog needs all that and the Mayfield and Lemm keeps can be the same as the research in feeding dogs, use from both what works.

I like the recovery aspects of the Lemm keeps. I try to take advantage of the recovery times as well by working both to recovery and working thru recovery. It's a tough pitch to most and it takes a lot of 'paying attention'. On the outside looking in the dog will never get a chance to recover and will end up over worked and stale. In reality he learns to recover under load. If the dogs went for X amount of 3 minute rounds then I think the Lemm keep would be perfect.

I draw the dogs off of water in a really similar way that Mr.Mayfield did. I hydrate to over hydrate in the food and allow the dog to piss himself to water weight. I leave water out til he comes off of it himself. In the beginning he will visit the water bowl often, mid keep toward the end he will not even touch it. At that point he is really close and I can dial him from the food bowl.

One of the better dogs I ever saw was Mims'/DTA's CH. Charlie (4XW). His keeps were modeled a lot around the influences of Vernon Jackson. We must have made a thousand miles around that tobacco/bean field. We hand walked. We pulled chains. I jogged to change speeds both with and without chains. He turned his chain into a jenny. Rub the dog next to him and he would run in circles in a dead sprint. He was an easy dog to keep.

We worked him similar to VJ, fed a combination of Crenshaw and Mayfield, and used the recovery principles of Lemm. Some influx of Mr. Colopy as well.

After all that, and using any and or all of one of these well respected names, one still must read the dog. it is a team and one must learn the dog is driving the boat.

EWO

[Nut]

Robert Lemm was caught having sex with his daughter by his wife and he then commit suicide.

[EWO]

He has answered to his maker for all of that. I'm talking dogs.

EWO