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Thread: Scratch to win

  1. #21
    EWO, I agree each dog should be given the opportunity to quit. As well as given the opportunity to continue...im simply saying that without a courtesy scratch the other is not given the opportunity to do anything but stand in your arms. Once the opponent quits, it should be the others chance/opportunity to quit or continue, if he wants to continue declare him winner. That in my opinion is 100% fair rule wise. But on the flip side i do see the logic in not wanting to ask your dog to charge into battle again.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by CYJ View Post
    In the Cajun rules you do not have to scratch to win or to a dead dog to win. If a dog is counted out, dies in a match for any reason it is the automatic loser. If a dog jumps the pit and feet hit the ground is a automatic loser. If there is a scratch to win agreement, the referee should know and the spectators.

    When your opponent will not pick up a losing or dying dog. If one ask you to scratch to win may be hoping your dog will not scratch to a dead dog or has seen a fault in your dog. Unless you have a deep game high predator drive dog. Best to decline and remind that person of the rules.

    One should never have a person referee that does not have a book of the Cajun rules and knows all of it. I have seen sore losers pick up their dog, let your dog slam into the corner wall on scratch to win or courtesy scratches.

    Another reason some will leave a losing dog down is in hopes of killing your dog as well. From the excessive exertion and drawing the match out to long. Sometimes the winning dog can go into shock.

    This sort of thing stays in the mind of dog men a long time. When Burton refused to pick up his badly hurt and dying dog. The Con trying to be pulled, was the scratch to win or scratch to continue. A good Referee should have stepped in reminded him of the poor sportsmanship he was displaying. That soon as that dog is declared dead. He loses and the party is over. Which did happen but was drawn out way to long.

    I seen this sort of thing maybe once or twice. The good dog men shunned them and would not match them. When the other dog is counted out and you want a courtesy scratch ask for it and tail scratch your dog. There is a smart part of match making. If you saw a bad fault in the winning dog and you have that weight. Try to match into that dog at a later date.

    It is not good policy and bad manners to jump up in the crowd and loudly challenge the winning dog. Best to let all winners have their day, shake hands and be friendly. Earl Tudor said a match well made is a match well won.

    Overtime I saw the dog game go from a wonderful dog fraternity to grudge matches between the different dog camps. When the dope dealers, big money gambling, gangsta groups showed up. The sport became less fun and more violent. Was no longer about game dogs only money, pride and power.

    W. T. told me the last bad thing he saw not to far back was a little bitch that had given her all and fell forward on her scratch line. Could not get up, was counted out. The owner in front of the group forced her head down into a bucket of water and drowned her. Hopefully that guy owns no breed of dogs today. Cheers

    We always agreed previous

  3. #23
    If the dog is legitimately dead, the match is over. There's no reason for a dog that's legitimately dead at 38 minutes to be drug around for almost an hour.

    And honestly, I've never owned a dog that wouldn't scratch to a down dog, and I can't think of any dog I've ever seen that wouldn't scratch to a down dog in the opposite corner.

  4. #24
    EWO THAT's the best post I've ever read online period. Reason being is I say it to people all the time, the show is for winning not proving if your game. Although it takes gameness to win you better know before you bet.
    Quote Originally Posted by EWO View Post
    I am not a fan of making it a stipulation upfront. It is a fine line between the sportsman aspect and the gambling aspect. If the other dog has stopped or been stopped and does not make his scratch I feel no obligation to show mine will. Mostly because if the other side has doubts about my dog after their dog has lost they have to pay to see him again. My concept at the show is not to prove my dog is game, or even find out if your dog is game, that should have been done long ago (will do a first time out on the cheap as a game check, but that is a different topic) at the show it is about winning. For me, it is a two man team. I can't ask him to do all that I ask of him, everything it takes to win, then when he wins, I ask him to do one more thing for nothing more than a display. The fruits of our labor must have a reward. EWO

  5. #25
    Make all checks payable to EWO...LOL...It is a great topic. I am not sure if there are actual right or wrong answers or just passionate opinions. I believe there are starting and stopping points to most every endeavor. When one dog fails to make his/her scratch, for me, it is over at that point, period. Again, for me, asking my dog to make a display, or prove something is not on my list of priorities at that point. As soon as one dog fails to make his scratch, or at the point one dog is declared the winner, the only thing that really matters is the well being of the dog/dogs. (With the money exchange a close second). EWO

  6. #26
    I have always thought any man who deliberately allows his game dog to be killed in a match at all, wasn't a dogman to begin with, but a gambler with no regard for his game dog.

    Jack

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by CA Jack View Post
    I have always thought any man who deliberately allows his game dog to be killed in a match at all, wasn't a dogman to begin with, but a gambler with no regard for his game dog.

    Jack
    Agreed

  8. #28
    Without a doubt. Very true. EWO


    Quote Originally Posted by CA Jack View Post
    I have always thought any man who deliberately allows his game dog to be killed in a match at all, wasn't a dogman to begin with, but a gambler with no regard for his game dog.

    Jack

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CA Jack View Post
    I have always thought any man who deliberately allows his game dog to be killed in a match at all, wasn't a dogman to begin with, but a gambler with no regard for his game dog.

    Jack
    sadly jack that is how most dogmen are

  10. #30
    I agree, it is sad.

    I don't know what is wrong with saying, "Hey, the little guy just doesn't have it today, but damn he's trying his best," and just picking up a game dog? Why does death have to be a part of fighting? Why does any match (except in rare instances) have to have a negative outcome? Folks, it's OKAY to pick up!

    We watch and enjoy human fights all the time, and yet death is never a part of the outcome. We can pretty much tell who the winner is long before lives become at risk. This same truth applies to the dogs 99% of the time. Only rarely do 2 dead game dogs of equal ability face each other. And that is why the sporting concept of "a draw" was invented: for the human dogmen to protect their own game dogs from death.

    Really, I have bred as many or more truly game dogs as anyone alive today, and I have never had to kill a dog in school to determine if it was "game enough" or not. I can tell within a few minutes if I like the dog's style, and by :20-:30 minutes if it can compete with the best in the world, and I have been able to determine this quite accurately for a very long time now. Yes, my dogs lose too, but you gotta whip one to join "The 10% Club" and actually beat one when the smoke clears. It will not be a cakewalk. And I have NEVER had to "leave any dog down," make it crawl, or kill a dog, to get this level of consistency.

    So when people make excuses and talk about "their standards" and pretend that high standards = killing dogs, I call bullshit. That is just demented, sociopathic, psychotic abuse of game dogs, nothing more. I absolutely know this to be true. NO ONE needs to abuse dogs to prove gameness. NO ONE needs to allow dogs to get killed to determine quality, anymore than we "need" to do this in human fighting to determine quality. If a person can't see "quality" in a dog from just a normal, fairly hard roll then he simply is blind and doesn't have an eye for a dog. To say that, "Some dogs have to be killed," to keep the standard of winning alive is pure, fabricated bullshit. It is only what sick people spew to justify their sickness and abuse of game dogs.

    Nothing more.

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