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[Wardog Kennels]

Thank you

[Officially Retired]

Sure. It is kind of confusing at first, I know, but once you get the hang of it, you'll really like the way it operates.

Cheers,

[ToTheDogs]

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=25197

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...p?dog_id=17734

Why are these the exact same breeding but the coefficient numbers are different?

[Officially Retired]

Because they're not the exact same breeding.

In fact, the parents are different, with different parents themselves, and because the tightness of each parent is different, it thereby affects the aggregate quotient.

I understand what you're saying ... in the sense that all 4 grand parents are "the same" ... but because they're stacked differently, therefore they put a slightly different spin on things for each parent.

For example these two dogs have the exact same 4 grand parents also:

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=7686

http://www.thepitbullbible.com/forum...hp?dog_id=6826

However, their W.I.C.s are different as well. Miagi is a bit looser-bred, while Serious is tighter-bred, and that is because Serious' daddy was a 75% inbred Poncho dog, while Miagi's mama was only 50% "double-granddaughter."

So they're really not "the same" at all; just very similar.

That's a good question though ...

Jack

[ToTheDogs]

No, the pedigrees you referenced are different. It's Poncho being bred to Wild Red Rose in one pedigree and Kitana in the other & Thunder was bred to both of those gyps as well. And I understand why those would be different WCI percentages.

BUT, in the pedigrees I'm asking about...

(Bruiser x Belle) x (Ranger x Lil Brook)

and

(Ranger x Lil Brook) x (Bruiser x Belle).

If Bruiser was bred to "Lil Brook" in one of those pedigrees it would be understandable, but he wasn't. So, with the exact genetic make-up why are the WCI's not the same? And I'm not trying to argue, I'm genuinely trying to understand it.

[Officially Retired]

No, the pedigrees you referenced are different. It's Poncho being bred to Wild Red Rose in one pedigree and Kitana in the other & Thunder was bred to both of those gyps as well. And I understand why those would be different WCI percentages.
BUT, in the pedigrees I'm asking about...
(Bruiser x Belle) x (Ranger x Lil Brook)
and
(Ranger x Lil Brook) x (Bruiser x Belle).
If Bruiser was bred to "Lil Brook" in one of those pedigrees it would be understandable, but he wasn't. So, with the exact genetic make-up why are the WCI's not the same? And I'm not trying to argue, I'm genuinely trying to understand it.

I can't answer your question, because I am neither the creator of the Wright's Inbreeding Coefficient nor am I mathematician enough to explain it to you.

What I can ask you to do is place these same breedings into another (commercial) pedigree program and see if the output is different and then to report your findings here.

On my end, what I can do is ask my brother (a true mathematician) to explain the reasoning to me, if he can, or to correct the mistake (if, indeed, one has been made).

Again, I understand where you're coming from, so hopefully we can find the legitimate answer as to "why" ... or ... correct the mistake in calculation if you've spotted one.

Cheers,

Jack

[ToTheDogs]

Thanks Jack! I'm truly confused by it, and my friend who is a breeder is the one who brought it to my attention. I will do some more research on it.

[Officially Retired]

Good deal.

I will be talking to my brother about it tonight, so hopefully we get some clarification soon

Jack

[ToTheDogs]

When I enter these breedings into another (commercial) pedigree database; the WIC for both pedigrees is 10.938%. So, there's something off with this WIC equation.

[PORTORICO]

Is it possible to insert pic of pedigree from URL ? This operation would be much faster than from file.