Who is the Better Dogman?

[ToTheDogs]

damn im the only one who voted the.other way? if the fucker dont got it you shouldn't show them plain n simple.you cant.add.talent or.gameness so if you bring out the best in a bum its still.gonna be a bum. you gonna have the best bum possible lol. no.excuses.as soon as you have a reason not to show him you should cull him. im not.going.to breed.a.bum.just cause its breed a certain.way theres.enuff hounds thst have the ped and performance to not.hang onto.a hound that doesnt cut it. if you dont believe they can compete with the best in the world then they dont belong. go thtough them and when u get that world beater.that is when you put YOUR best into a hound that deserves it. you.dont take a ugly bitch out for steak and lobster do you? im not.talking.bout taking care of your hounds to the best of your ability we should always strive for that.

[CYJ]

Ditto totheDogs. But you see, like the Russian boxer told Rocky in the Rocky movie. (We Must Break You) of this way of thinking. LOL Just kidding to each his own. Ain't no Fools Ain't No Fun. LOL Keep on Keeping on. Cheers

[EWO]

There is nothing wrong with this concept, per se. This approach can lead to early culls. For me bad signs are bad signs and that is all I need to see. If my dogs were rated on a 1-10 scale I am not culling all the 7's and 8's while waiting for the 9's and 10's. With the 9's and 10's I am betting on my dogs. With the 7's and 8's I am betting on me, what I think I can do with that dog and then in the end I am betting on the dog. That is how I took the question. I am thinking my abilities will get that 7 and 8 dog to a successful spot.

My take on the question was is the better dog man the one that will work with that 7 or 8 dog or the one that knocks them in the head in hopes for the 9's or 10'. I voted for the guy who can wait and put in the time. EWO

damn im the only one who voted the.other way? if the fucker dont got it I aint fuckin with em. plain n simple.you cant.add.talent or.gameness so if you bring out the best in a bum its still.gonna be a bum. you gonna have the best bum possible lol. no.excuses.as soon as you have a reason not to show him you should cull him. im not.going.to breed.a.bum.just cause its breed a certain.way theres.enuff hounds thst have the ped and performance to not.hang onto.a hound that doesnt cut it. if you dont believe they can compete with the best in the world then they dont belong. go thtough them and when u get that world beater.that is when you put YOUR best into a hound that deserves it. you.dont take a ugly bitch out for steak and lobster do you? im not.talking.bout taking care of your hounds to the best of your ability we should always strive for that.

[R2L]

If my dogs were rated on a 1-10 scale I am not culling all the 7's and 8's while waiting for the 9's and 10's. With the 9's and 10's I am betting on my dogs. With the 7's and 8's I am betting on me

classic

[Officially Retired]

damn im the only one who voted the.other way? if the fucker dont got it I aint fuckin with em. plain n simple.

You are only 1 of 2 who voted the other way, while 29 voted the more sensible way.

So you would cull Little Tater, who was the game bum that produced Gr Ch Buck? Or Long's Werdo, who was the game bum that produced Ch Doogie, Ch Rutkus, Ch Rhino, Ch Whiskey, etc.?

The idea of culling game dogs is not too bright IMO ... especially game bums inbred on talented dogs ... as ability (like anything else) can skip a generation ... and those game bums are often fantastic stud dogs.

you cant.add.talent or.gameness so if you bring out the best in a bum its still.gonna be a bum. you gonna have the best bum possible lol. no.excuses.as soon as you have a reason not to show him you should cull him.

Now you're preaching what other people should do? Kill dogs the moment they can't be shown?

Sorry, but this is selfish, short-sighted, if not outright daft.

History is filled with all-time-great dogs that couldn't be shown, but were extremely valuable as producers.

im not.going.to breed.a.bum.just cause its breed a certain.way theres.enuff hounds thst have the ped and performance to not.hang onto.a hound that doesnt cut it.

Good thing Stone City didn't believe that when they kept and bred Awesome Baby, a cold bitch who out-produced every bitch in the history of dogs, except Honeybunch.

With your ruthless thinking, have you owned any bitches that could compare in any way to Awesome Baby's as a producer?

if you dont believe they can compete with the best in the world then they dont belong. go thtough them and when u get that world beater.that is when you put YOUR best into a hound that deserves it.

If you don't believe they can beat the best in the world, then don't put them in with the best of the world.

But that doesn't mean they can't beat a pretty good dog like themselves.

Have you ever really beaten "the best in the world" yourself? (By that I mean, a Grand Champion, Champion, DOY, etc.?) Or are you pretty much just going into "dogs" with (what you call a "world beater") ... without the actual accomplishment you're speaking of, namely beating the best in the world?
99% of all the matches that take place are NOT people going into "the very best"; they're just two dogmen doing what they think are pretty good dogs.

I agree you should go through your dogs, and I also agree that you should bet (and put them with) where you feel they belong ... and I further agree that, if they're not good enough to match, then don't match them.

But I can't agree with killing game plugs, because history is filled with game plugs that will outproduce the daylights over talented Champions, especially if they're bred well.

you.dont take a ugly bitch out for steak and lobster do you? im not.talking.bout taking care of your hounds to the best of your ability we should always strive for that.

I may not take the ugly bitch out for steak dinner, but I am not going to kill her either, especially if she has a good heart.

Jack


.

[No Quarter Kennel]

can't really top or add to what jack said, but I do agree 100% with Jack's perspective on this one.

[skipper]

We should take into consideration that some of us aren't breeders. I probably would've culled a bitch like awesome baby for being cold unless she were the last of a line or something like that. I can house 8 dogs at a time and i only keep one or two brood dogs. I like those dogs to be good dogs that fit my likings. Fully aware that cold dogs can produce especially when bred a certain way. I have no own bloodline and im not really interested in building one either. I make breedings to, but one every 3 years or so. I would love to have a good breeder send me dogs to work, not having to focus anything on breeding dogs. Therefore i might cull a potential producer once in a while, but my situation is what it is. Working dogs is what i love. Not breeding them.

I like to add that i don't like to cull a game plug and that im not a world beater in any way.

[Officially Retired]

We should take into consideration that some of us aren't breeders. I probably would've culled a bitch like awesome baby for being cold unless she were the last of a line or something like that. I can house 8 dogs at a time and i only keep one or two brood dogs. I like those dogs to be good dogs that fit my likings. Fully aware that cold dogs can produce especially when bred a certain way. I have no own bloodline and im not really interested in building one either. I make breedings to, but one every 3 years or so. I would love to have a good breeder send me dogs to work, not having to focus anything on breeding dogs. Therefore i might cull a potential producer once in a while, but my situation is what it is. Working dogs is what i love. Not breeding them.

I hear what you're saying. This is why (unless the dog is an ill-bred, no-talent cur), selling them or giving them away is a better option than culling.

Personally, I believe most people should NOT breed dogs, period, because they don't understand genetics and how to manage them. Essentially, most people view breeding dogs as a "crapshoot," where they're basically randomly mixing lines "to see what they get," rather than actually having a gameplan, zeroing-in on a small, high-quality gene pool, and thus ensuring what they get

If I killed everything I bred that didn't suit me, ability-wise, then a lot of great dogs and producers would never have existed, including Diamond Girl, Chase/Chita, etc., who are behind some of the best and most consistent dogs down from my bloodline.

I don't think anyone, who actually has bred a number of good/great dogs, agrees with killing game plugs.
In fact, many truly experienced breeders I have spoken with over the years almost expect the game plug littermate to outproduce its more talented sibling ... because their "hindsight" experience shows this happens quite often.

Jack

[skipper]

Personally, I believe most people should NOT breed dogs, period, because they don't understand genetics and how to manage them.

I'm probably one of them. haha

[Officially Retired]

I'm probably one of them. haha

Sometimes people with small yards shoot themselves in the foot by culling so ruthlessly.
It is almost like they get brainwashed into the genre of "kill anything that can't be shown," which is ultimately a flawed way to do things.

Suppose some "hard culler" does that, and their great Champion they kept dies DG for his 5th ... or gets put down in a raid ... or gets stolen, etc. ... and they killed off all the other siblings? What then? Start all over with new blood?

By contrast, if that dogman had placed the game bum with a friend or family member (or sold it to a beginner), he would still have access to his good blood ... while if he killed off the others he would have none of it.

People who "assume" what they keep will "always be there" often regret their foolishness and find themselves in a bad spot ... while those who place stores of their blood in other locations can always fall back on 2 important things: (1) they can still have access to their blood if they lose the better brother, and/or (2) they can still have access to their blood if they find the game bum is the better producer

In a nutshell, "Waste Not, Want Not," as the saying goes ...

Jack