DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT .

[Foxman]

OK Project- Here goes. Have you ever seen these Bloodlines fight? The Cry Bavy stuff had a Medium Pace. If the old Eli dog would have been out of Crybaby. Eli should have been a slower fighting dog than he was and he should have stayed in holt better than he did. When he got tired he dropped his holts. How about The Nigger stuff and the Eli Stuff? Eli stuff fights all out a hunded miles per hour. Nigger stuff has a medium pace. Well I know you haven't. They do not fight alike. They have a little different system of winning. Looks like If the Eli dogs had any Mayfield blood in them they would similar in style. OK about Zebo. When Crossed with HoneyBunch the pups were not good dogs. HoneyBunch was out of Bullyson. If Zebo had been a Boudreaux dog. I believe a big percentage of those pups would have been good. Also, One unknown fact is Zebo produced not more winners but did produce more champions than Eli Jr. Or BullySon and a heck of a lot more than Nigger produced. If you line breed or inbreed Eli stuff you still get a good percentage of good dogs. But 90 percent of the inbred Nigger dogs are currs. If crossed right the Nigger dogs percentage is much higher but occasionally you will get a good inbred one. I oned several Nigger dogs and only had one game one. Mayfield crossed them with that Fitawater stuff he had and they came good. One female I had was bred on Tudor's yard and she quit for me. Now that is what they were like years ago. I'm not sure about today. Toot when he was on the chain and down in weight looked a lot like Tombstone. It isn't unusual for a dog to look like his sire no matter what the dam was. But back when the rumors you have acquired were established that's the way they were. Their action in the pit blows your theory all to crap. Is that any nicer. You still wont like that for an answer that is why I hesitated to hand it to you but it is a tad more proof than the word from dead folks and or rumors. If I say anything to you about the facts you change the story and say I'm after Mayfield. I'm not after him in any way he was off in left field toward the end of his life. Mayfield wasn't the same person for about three or four years before he died. I'm not sure what had happened to him mentally but something changed. He was a hell of a guy before that. Ask any of his friends. It isn't just me. Randy Fox

[projectx]

OK Project- Here goes. Have you ever seen these Bloodlines fight? The Cry Bavy stuff had a Medium Pace. If the old Eli dog would have been out of Crybaby. Eli should have been a slower fighting dog than he was and he should have stayed in holt better than he did. When he got tired he dropped his holts. How about The Nigger stuff and the Eli Stuff? Eli stuff fights all out a hunded miles per hour. Nigger stuff has a medium pace. Well I know you haven't. They do not fight alike. They have a little different system of winning. Looks like If the Eli dogs had any Mayfield blood in them they would similar in style. OK about Zebo. When Crossed with HoneyBunch the pups were not good dogs. HoneyBunch was out of Bullyson. If Zebo had been a Boudreaux dog. I believe a big percentage of those pups would have been good. Also, One unknown fact is Zebo produced not more winners but did produce more champions than Eli Jr. Or BullySon and a heck of a lot more than Nigger produced. If you line breed or inbreed Eli stuff you still get a good percentage of good dogs. But 90 percent of the inbred Nigger dogs are currs. If crossed right the Nigger dogs percentage is much higher but occasionally you will get a good inbred one. I oned several Nigger dogs and only had one game one. Mayfield crossed them with that Fitawater stuff he had and they came good. One female I had was bred on Tudor's yard and she quit for me. Now that is what they were like years ago. I'm not sure about today. Toot when he was on the chain and down in weight looked a lot like Tombstone. It isn't unusual for a dog to look like his sire no matter what the dam was. But back when the rumors you have acquired were established that's the way they were. Their action in the pit blows your theory all to crap. Is that any nicer. You still wont like that for an answer that is why I hesitated to hand it to you but it is a tad more proof than the word from dead folks and or rumors. Randy Fox

Randy thats posts a little more like it should have been , why all the annimosity before , but as for blowing my theory out of the water, well i dont think you do, not becuase i dont belive your opinion on a dogs fihgting stlye, and i might even agree with you on some points, but to blow my theory out of the water dont you think you should explain how dibo born in 1951 and billy born supposedly in 1952 (which would mean dibo was bred at one year old or less depending what month billy was whelped )and as we know as has been well documented that dibo was nearly 3 yrs old more or less before earl got him , and wasnt bred by tudor on the day he arrived on his yard , so even if we said dibo was on earls yard at exactly 2 years old, in march 1953 that would still
make it one year to late for him to be blind billys sire, and if it was nearer 3 yrs as is known then it would make it late 1953 or sometime in 1954 before dibo got to earls yard, so i would ask you randy as i have done in all my posts how do you explain that ? I can take on board your fighting styles opinion, but i think the dates need some explaining dont you before you can make such a bold statement as blowing my theory out of the water,i hesitate to say that to you incase you use it to say i wont belive anything you say , because im still waiting for a realistic explanation for how billy can be out of dibo based on those dates , and even making it earlier by one whole year doesnt make it possible, so as much as i take on board your opinons on fighting styles , that breeding wasnt done before by mayfield so how can anyone say what a dogs
fighting style will or wont be , and even dogs who line we know can be very different in style , i certaintly think that the dates need a lot more than that as an expalnation before you can say you blow my theory out of the water randy, i would
put it to you that if you presented your theory in a court of law, and mine i have a feeling the jury would blow yours out of the water as the dates are a prooof of fact , your opinion on what a dogs fighting style may or may not have been is just
an opinion and not a cast iron fact , and if crybaby x cotton as i believe were the true sire and dam to eli, then as that breeding had not been made before how can you or anyone else try to put that up as better evidence than the dobs of both dibo and blind billy which are not made up by me , but a record of fact and sworn to by floyd himself on billy , so randy
as much as i like the tone of your last post and hopefully whatever our views we can keep it to a level where we can agree
to disagree without getting to personal and just let others deicde what they want to believe or not believe, i think that rather than you blowing my theory out of the water randy i am very much still afloat and stillwaiting for that torpedo of facts to match my ones before anyone can say they have sunk me , but i can say this if they can i will be the first to
say well done , thats what were here for to learn more about true breedings not hide from them for fear that we have to play
a game of taking sides regadless of the truth , that gets us nowhere but down the same dead end road , but anyway take care randy ,i dont want to fight with you for the sakeof it, and when ever i think your right i will say so , no matter what has gone before , i believe in being fair regadless of alliances ok.

[CYJ]

Projectx, I enjoyed our chat and did discern that one of the voices was Don Mayfield on that Tape. I was unable to really hear all that was said between Don and Carver. Can be interesting to hear, it is our human nature to see or hear some new thing whether right or wrong. In the majority of cases and situations will never prove much of anything. You my poor fellow and in your own way of thinking, may mean well. But you still are beating on a dead horse. It is over, that horse has died 40 to 60 years ago. The guys in my time era got over it, best do the same.

For example I listen to the taped conversation of Pat Patrick supposedly admitting he had changed some papers on a specific dog. This taped conversation is on the You tube.

Since there was some big bucks to be made. Patrick could have just told this supposed foreigner what he wanted to hear to make a dog sell. Instead of those guys thinking they were getting something over on Patrick. He may have went down to the bank with their money. Laughing all the way. What did he really care one way or the other, if he was going to make a dog sale for a good amount of money. Tell the guy what he want's to hear.

I have seen some dog sellers single register their puppies and dogs. Instead of litter registering them. You come asking for a certain specific breeding and all of that litter was sold. You still going to get a pup or dog just like the breeding you want. These guys have to sell all those puppies not just the choice few. That dog breeder can not eat them. All have to be sold. That is not true in all cases with all dog kennels, but it has been done many a time.

Mr Howard Teal told a story one time of a young dog man that wanted to buy a pup out of a litter he had bred a certain way. He also had a adjoining litter of of extra nice pups in the next brood pen, but not bred the same way.

This young fellow wanted that certain breeding, maybe the Bullet stuff. But he really liked another pup out of that other litter which was bred some what different. So the guy is standing there looking back and forth and back forth. Finally Mr. Teal who is a business man and had many other things that needed attending to that day. Gets enough of it all and says look you like that other pup but you want these papers. Am I right in that assumption. The Reply is yes and the young man leaves with the papers he wanted on the other dog he wanted. So there you go, how many times you reckon that has been done. LOL


I know that Mr. Fox can very well defend himself. But to call him a sad individual is very disrespectable. Mr. Fox has seen more great dog matches than the majority of dog men in my time era ever saw. He matched some very good dogs and they were in condition to win. Mr. Fox was best of friends of top known dog men. In my time Era and we are about the same age give or take a little. Mr. Fox was considered then and now a very honest dog man. I never heard anyone speak bad of him.

You need to go over to Mr. Fox's site and read about his Alvin dog. Alvin was really the best of show and gamest of show dog that day. After the match, Mr. Earl Tudor said that Fox's Alvin was the Best match dog he had seen in forty years. That would have included many of Tudor' favorites like Spike and Jeff. Later Tudor was not calling D. Mayfield or D. Maloney or Burton looking for a good stud dog to breed to. He was calling Mr. Fox to see if he could get a breeding off the Alvin dog.

You said something about Zebo maybe being off that Eli dog. That story has been told before. The Lonzo Pratt's Andy & Mike dogs were two of Mr. Pratt's favorite dogs and Mike was a Pit Ace. He had no need of a Mayfield or Boudreaux's Eli dog to continue on his line of dogs. The hard bite that those dogs showed came primarily from Mr. Joe Beal's dogs which I knew very well. The last stud dog that Mr. Joe Beal used a lot before he died was a dog he got from me bred off My Chuck dog and his breeding on the dam's side. Dog's name was Southern Johnny Reb.

You wish to know about Mr. Pratt's dogs. Best talk with Tar Heel Matt. Tar Heel Matt was one of the young dog men that got along real well with Mr. Pratt. Matt knew his dogs and dog yard real well. Matt has sort of fallen off the map of lately. Hope all is well with him and family. Have called and P.M. him but no answers as of yet. I would bred a good bitch of my choice to the Apostle dog if I had one, in a New York Minute.

This whole topic has turned in the sort of what ever stuff you get on the on line pedigree site. No longer appears to be civil enough for my liking. The way Mr. Fox has been keyed on for just telling the truth to the best of his ability. He knows nothing about the Boudreaux Blind Billy dog no more than I do or Mayfield did. Only Boudreaux and Tudor know. The birth dates could just be a honest mistake. Even dog registries make lots of errors.

Lets not start another Cyber Bully rant like over on the other site. Cyber Bully left the other site, and I was thinking to myself, hope he does not show up over here. Cheers

[projectx]

Projectx, I enjoyed our chat and did discern that one of the voices was Don Mayfield on that Tape. I was unable to really hear all that was said between Don and Carver. Can be interesting to hear, it is our human nature to see or hear some new thing whether right or wrong. In the majority of cases and situations will never prove much of anything. You my poor fellow and in your own way of thinking, may mean well. But you still are beating on a dead horse. It is over, that horse has died 40 to 60 years ago. The guys in my time era got over it, best do the same.

For example I listen to the taped conversation of Pat Patrick supposedly admitting he had changed some papers on a specific dog. This taped conversation is on the You tube.

Since there was some big bucks to be made. Patrick could have just told this supposed foreigner what he wanted to hear to make a dog sell. Instead of those guys thinking they were getting something over on Patrick. He may have went down to the bank with their money. Laughing all the way. What did he really care one way or the other, if he was going to make a dog sale for a good amount of money. Tell the guy what he want's to hear.

I have seen some dog sellers single register their puppies and dogs. Instead of litter registering them. You come asking for a certain specific breeding and all of that litter was sold. You still going to get a pup or dog just like the breeding you want. These guys have to sell all those puppies not just the choice few. That dog breeder can not eat them. All have to be sold. That is not true in all cases with all dog kennels, but it has been done many a time.

Mr Howard Teal told a story one time of a young dog man that wanted to buy a pup out of a litter he had bred a certain way. He also had a adjoining litter of of extra nice pups in the next brood pen, but not bred the same way.

This young fellow wanted that certain breeding, maybe the Bullet stuff. But he really liked another pup out of that other litter which was bred some what different. So the guy is standing there looking back and forth and back forth. Finally Mr. Teal who is a business man and had many other things that needed attending to that day. Gets enough of it all and says look you like that other pup but you want these papers. Am I right in that assumption. The Reply is yes and the young man leaves with the papers he wanted on the other dog he wanted. So there you go, how many times you reckon that has been done. LOL


I know that Mr. Fox can very well defend himself. But to call him a sad individual is very disrespectable. Mr. Fox has seen more great dog matches than the majority of dog men in my time era ever saw. He matched some very good dogs and they were in condition to win. Mr. Fox was best of friends of top known dog men. In my time Era and we are about the same age give or take a little. Mr. Fox was considered then and now a very honest dog man. I never heard anyone speak bad of him.

You need to go over to Mr. Fox's site and read about his Alvin dog. Alvin was really the best of show and gamest of show dog that day. After the match, Mr. Earl Tudor said that Fox's Alvin was the Best match dog he had seen in forty years. That would have included many of Tudor' favorites like Spike and Jeff. Later Tudor was not calling D. Mayfield or D. Maloney or Burton looking for a good stud dog to breed to. He was calling Mr. Fox to see if he could get a breeding off the Alvin dog.

You said something about Zebo maybe being off that Eli dog. The Lonzo Pratt's Mike dog was Mr. Pratt's favorite dog and was a very good Pit Ace. He had no need of a Mayfield or Boudreaux's Eli dog to continue on his line of dog. You want to know about Mr. Pratt's dogs. Best talk with Tar Heel Matt.

Tar Heel Matt was one of the few dog men that got along real well with Mr. Pratt. Matt knew his dogs and dog yard real well. Matt has sort of fallen off the map of lately. Hope all is well with him and family. Have called and P.M. him but no answers as of yet. I would bred a good bitch of my choice to the Apostle dog if I had one, in a New York Minute.

This whole topic has turned in the sort of what ever stuff you get on the on line pedigree site. No longer appears to be civil enough for my liking. The way Mr. Fox has been keyed on for just telling the truth to the best of his ability. He knows nothing about the Boudreaux Blind Billy dog no more than I do or Mayfield did. Only Boudreaux and Tudor know. The birth dates could just be a honest mistake. Even dog registries make lots of errors.

Lets not start another Cyber Bully rant like over on the other site. Cyber Bully left the other site, and I was thinking to my self, hope he does not show up over here. Cheers

CYJ i would like to say that you are correct in most all you say ,and folks can and do say whatever other folks want to hear at tmes, ,but iwould say that in those mayfield audios , its just an extra way of learning something that may be all
true or not at all, but thats what god gave us all a brain and the freedom to use it to put the puzzle toggehter with as
many pieces that we have to hand.
As for zebo i never said i believed he was out of eli, i said that there were rumours and infact floyd i think had claimed he felt that eli was zebos sire , and i was asking what others thought about zebo and if anyone had any views as to his breeding, i have no reason to disbelieve his pedigree , but there were rumours and he is another very famous dog and it would have been intersting to see other peoples views on zebo, or any other dog that anyone else wants to talk about of interest .
As for me calling randy sad , well i was defending myself, as randy had not been saying much but trying to either discredit
me without any thoery as to why he believd or didnt beleive eli was out of crybaby x cotton, or that bily couldnt be correct based soley on the dates without any other circumstantial evidence to support it, and when i was attaked i defended myself as i my right to do so , and up untill randys last post he had done only that , were at leastin his last post he gives some reason as to why he thinks eli is correct , but up untill then it was like extracting teeth getting an answer from him, but he was plenty rude to me also , and randy may be the msot honest man in the world and respected by everyone, but
that doesnt give him anymore right to be rude to me either, and if his opinion is his honest one ok , i dont happen to
agree with it , but if were now going to say that the dob of dibo is or could be wrong , when floyd not once but twice and in all these years has never changed billys dob, and dibos dob has never been questioned, then i would say that
if the dates are correect which i nor anyone else can have reason to say there not, then the truth lies with mayfield
and yes the dogs are long dead now, but does that mean we should forget about it, and leave the innocent man in prison ?
while the guilty walk free ? i wonder if you or i were in prison for 40 years and the evidence could free us, do you think
it would be right to just say nothing or do the right thing? I dont think either so you or me CYJ believe blind billy is bred like floyd shows him or eli , and if we have reached the point where we want to put the dob of dibo in doubt to somehow to make floyds verson more believable, then i think we may aswell say we will put in doubt every pedigree we have and just toss them all aside and say to hell with it and live in a constant caos of what if possibilties and scenarios to suit our needs
and to hell with the truth when we have the chance to find it, and god knows thats not very often with gamedogs, but i for one dont want to be part of that no way.

Ps just to show you that i would rather dogs than get into silly personel stuff which
may lead me and others to sometimes say things we dont always want to say or mean to say , and if i have been excessivvely disrespectfull to randy i wasnt
going looking for a fight and to my mind i was only giving as good as i got , but if you
thought that i was CYJ then my genuine appolgy is given to randy .

[ragedog10]

I do not believe you have any facts whatsoever plain and simple, you have what amounts to heresy. Yes you have Mayfield tapes but why is word better than Floyds? Mr. Fox explained the styles of the strains and if you do dogs you under stand most families of dog's have similar styles. I do believe your intention s were good but it seems you have gotten wrapped up in and all. What done is done like CJY said this was talked about years ago. And yes Blind Billy produced a great line and so did Eli and it's still good today regardless of how you think it may be bred. They way you keeping talking about these tapes sounds down right Fanatical. I'm done with this as its pointless trying to reason with you. Yis Ole Man

[Gotta12v]

what are the adba dob for dibo and billy

also randy got me thinking when he mentioned how zebo and honey produce together. ive heard that honeybuch could have been out of ironhead and if that was true if could explain why he didn't produce with honey but did with clemmons pepper (eli boze) to produce niggertoby and lupe (eli boze carver) to produce huey who prodced t-bud

eli family breeders bred toby and t-bud dogs in there pure eli yards

[CYJ]

One last thought on this matter. If the breeding of Mayfield's Little Cotton to Start's Cry Baby was very important to Don. He got Cry Baby back from Boudreaux. Why did he not make the breeding again when Cry Baby came back in heat?

Surely both dogs had not both died in less than 6 to 8 months. Even the Lightning I and II dog had similar breeding to the Mayfield's little Cotton dog. Of all those dog bloodlines Don had. I liked those Lightning I & II dogs a lot. Believe he got some good match dogs off that line. Cheers

[projectx]

I do not believe you have any facts whatsoever plain and simple, you have what amounts to heresy. Yes you have Mayfield tapes but why is word better than Floyds? Mr. Fox explained the styles of the strains and if you do dogs you under stand most families of dog's have similar styles. I do believe your intention s were good but it seems you have gotten wrapped up in and all. What done is done like CJY said this was talked about years ago. And yes Blind Billy produced a great line and so did Eli and it's still good today regardless of how you think it may be bred. They way you keeping talking about these tapes sounds down right Fanatical. I'm done with this as its pointless trying to reason with you. Yis Ole Man

RAGE dog i menton the tapes just because they happen to be very interesting , but i cant beleive that you dont think the dates of birth of dibo and blind billy are not important , yet you want to use a dogs style as more proof of the true breeding thatn dates of birth that prove the sire can in no way be dibo , but i may aswell use the old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink, but you are intitlerd to your view, albeit completly upside down as to what proof is and isnt, but good luck all the same .

[projectx]

what are the adba dob for dibo and billy

also randy got me thinking when he mentioned how zebo and honey produce together. ive heard that honeybuch could have been out of ironhead and if that was true if could explain why he didn't produce with honey but did with clemmons pepper (eli boze) to produce niggertoby and lupe (eli boze carver) to produce huey who prodced t-bud

eli family breeders bred toby and t-bud dogs in there pure eli yards

Hi gotta 12 the dob for dibo is march 21 1951 , and floyd says blind billy was born in 1952 , and i think we know when earl got dibo in his yard so on those dobs alone without any of hte talk about black dogs and what a coincidence that two years later floyd shows up at putside with eli and ohter dogmen who ahd seen crybaby nursing pups which were supposed to have died , whcih is all circumstantial just as msot talk is, but the dobs are not they are as much of a fact as we have on any dsiputed breeding we could ever tallk about .

As for zebo it all very interesting , and i also heard that about ironhead , but i think with zebo and others its going ot be a case of how do we dsipute zebos known peidigree on a hunch that maybe when stolen eli was bred and produced zebo , it would be a push to make the leap , but of course it might be possoble, but im not sure that any info will ever surface as to that being true or not, but its intersting hearing the various views on zebo.

The ironhead one i heard was that with ironhead you could always be sure if he had sired a litter as his marking dominated the litter , and i think ed crenshaw believed that there were far less pups out of ironhead than there were suposed to be
becasue of that, and also as he was well bred carver would sell you a pedigree and that was also supposed to be true with bullyson when he was all the rage back then, but of course its all a case of what makes sense and looking at all the bits and maaking the best decsion we can about these thingsa.

[projectx]

One last thought on this matter. If the breeding of Mayfield's Little Cotton to Start's Cry Baby was very important to Don. He got Cry Baby back from Boudreaux. Why did he not make the breeding again when Cry Baby came back in heat?

Surely both dogs had not both died in less than 6 to 8 months. Even the Lightning I and II dog had similar breeding to the Mayfield's little Cotton dog. Of all those dog bloodlines Don had. I liked those Lightning I & II dogs a lot. Believe he got some good match dogs off that line. Cheers

Hi CYJ well who knows maybe he did try, i can tell you myself that getting breedings done isnt always easy , and of course don did have other dogs to breed and maybe he didnt have both anymore , we have to remmber don only put crybay on floyds ayrd as he was having some trouble at home and maybe crybaby wasnt the only one he farmed out at the time, but
CYJ i would ask you do you think that blind billy and eli are bred as paprered , and if so how do you square the dobs if they are as believed to be correct ? That question is like the magic bullet thoery that the warren commision put out to cover up the kennedy assasination, and if we to try make blind billy out of dibo it is about as unbelievable as that magic bullet theory , but hey miracles do happen dont they .