DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT .

[ragedog10]

The interview with Floyd was in 1989 I believe could be wrong, Billy was born in 1952 it was 37 years later did you ever stop to think maybe he simply forgot? That would be a honest mistake seeing how so much time had passed. But really none of us know and have no way of knowing , the only reason I mentioned style is because lines throw similar traits on a consistent basis. I think you're heart is in the right place but you are reading to much into this conspiracy theory. I hope you get some closure on this subject, I ve been around these dogs a long time and there s always someone who knows the truth about a great dog. Best of luck Ole Man

[projectx]

The interview with Floyd was in 1989 I believe could be wrong, Billy was born in 1952 it was 37 years later did you ever stop to think maybe he simply forgot? That would be a honest mistake seeing how so much time had passed. But really none of us know and have no way of knowing , the only reason I mentioned style is because lines throw similar traits on a consistent basis. I think you're heart is in the right place but you are reading to much into this conspiracy theory. I hope you get some closure on this subject, I ve been around these dogs a long time and there s always someone who knows the truth about a great dog. Best of luck Ole Man

Hi ragedog, floyd may have got many things wrong just like we all can and do , but that interview and the story of blind billy and eli has never changed and floyd has been saying the same things including the dates from day one and long before 89 that wasnt the first time ragedog and people were questioning his pedigree for blind billy back in the 60s and floyd always told the same story he told in 89 , so rather than you
or anyone else wanting to find a way to give floyd the benfit of the doubt why can't we just be honest about it and lets
stop trying to make excuses for him when its obvious, and its a perfect example of that old saying that you had better make sure you remmber your lies , because if you dont they will end up finding you out, and thats exactly what happend with
blind billy and eli, and as for closure i dont need it, closure is for people who still need to know the truth about something ,and i got closure a long time ago to satisfy me as to what is true, but maybe you and others who just cant bring themselves to see it are much more in need of closure not me, and maybe the closure as i have said before should be for mayfield ,as he is
the man who has been called mad crazy and jealous for telling us the truth, so maybe if you gave mayfield the same break and benefit of the doubt that you are willing to give floyd
eventough the evidence of dobs is overwhelming without any of the other circumstantial
and hearsay evidence which i havent even said much about ,then maybe just maybe
justice would be done and then there would be closure for everyone dont you think so ragedog.

[Officially Retired]

If Mayfield was so smart, and knew so much about breeding dogs and breeding theory, then why wasn't he more successful as a breeder compared to those he talked about?

None of what he has said is a "fact" ... it's merely "what he says" ...

Jack

PS: A dog born in March of 51 could easily sire a litter in 52 ... and would be 18 months old by September. Could also have been bred to on Heinzl's yard for all we know. Birthdates could be wrong on the papers, etc.

[Foxman]

Gotta12V I heard that story about HoneyBunch being out of Ironhead to. I blew it off because I heard it after Bullyson quit. So I figured they switched fathers to help sell pups or keep the fame. Yet there were several IronHead-Eli crosses here in Oklahoma that were good dogs. Not sure they were papered that way but the guys that owned them said they were bred that way. This all puts me in mind of Maurice saying I'll sell you the soup but not the recipe. There is projectX another one to solve. There were lots of false stuff that went on. I'm aware of that but it isn't my place to correct it when it is impossible to know the truth except through DNA. The subjects you might choose to DNA for proof. They just have to have one lie on their pedigree to mess up test answer. So it is impossible to know or fix. That is why I played around with ProjectX. It is a very impossible task to get a correct answer. There are some things Mayfield said I didn't like. One thing I did not like is that when I ask him if it bothered him if one of his dogs he fought got hurt bad. He said no as long as they live to fight him another day. That is quiet a bit more heartless than me. I tried to shut out close feelings but it was impossible for me. Earl Tudor was soft hearted about losing a dog. I've been by his place when one died. He'd tell me about it and have tears in his eyes. Anyway I truly believe all this about who was bred this way or that way is a waste of time and impossible to solve. Yet it does let lots of people entertain themselves with their writing and rambling and the talk about their theories with their impossible solutions. I have a life with my family and that is more important and interesting to me. I keep my records straight on my pups and they are kept correct here and that is all I can say for sure. I wouldn't be able to sleep if I lied about any breeding. My wife wouldn't ever talk to me again either. I hope everyone has a job that needs it and had a good Christmas. At least you all know who you are talking to and bad mouthing. When it is me your bad mouthing. That is more than I can say about lots of hidden identies on here. I have no secrets to hide. Randy Fox

[CrazyRed]

Some folks think every great Black dog has Eli behind it and every Mayfield fancier thinks Eli is a dog Mayfield bred. One thing, why not incorporate any of that Eli blood in the yard?

Far as Zebo, no way he was son of Eli, nothing about him says Eli besides the fact he was a destroyer and black. He looks just like his daddy Andy and he looks and performs like Mike and those dogs down off Mike. If anything Vindy & Rosie might be the dogs that are questioned out of that breeding but before folks go to question that please know that Beal's dog Powhattan was a Red RN dog. Pow is also off Snowball, and that litter "Andy x Angie" was Grandfather bred back to his grandaughter which was also his niece who was off his half brother/uncle.

[CrazyRed]

what are the adba dob for dibo and billy

also randy got me thinking when he mentioned how zebo and honey produce together. ive heard that honeybuch could have been out of ironhead and if that was true if could explain why he didn't produce with honey but did with clemmons pepper (eli boze) to produce niggertoby and lupe (eli boze carver) to produce huey who prodced t-bud

eli family breeders bred toby and t-bud dogs in there pure eli yards

I dont think she was off Ironhead, I think it's very possible she was off Bullyson x Amber. I personally believe her to be off Ch Cracker who is Amber's sire. In fact many of the Jeep dogs I've owned and came across resemble Cracker more than anything. The buckskin with the black ticked in is something that holds true even today in heavy bred Jeep/Honeybunch dogs. I truly believe if Honey isn't off Bully x Amber then she is directly off Cracker possible inbred Cracker back to his daughter Amber.

[No Quarter Kennel]

WOw you are one piece of work NQK your come on hear and call me a lair, i go out of my way to contact a member CYJ
who i didnt know at all ,but who seemed to be a knowledgeable and reasonable man by his posts , and who had made comments that he knew mayfeild and jackson , so thought if he heard the tapes he could confirm it as he did , and infact the first thing cyj said to me was (thats mayfields voice alright) and infact i am going to play him the audio
of maloney and others , and i would even call you to play it over the phone, but as you wouldnt belive it anyway as your
shitty appolgy showed, you can take it and stick where the sun dont shine .
AS for me wanting to prove people as dishonest, well to answer your question, NQK
this thread is about disputed peidgreews, i wonder if you even bothered to look at the psots which do have some good points , form various people ,and maybe its just me, but i wonder if you would be saying that if you had an interest in a line or the breed as you should being you call yourself a breeder , wouldnt you like to know how arguably the seocnd most important line of modern times was really bred ? or only if it meant being able to disagree with me i wonder.

Nqk i have no doubt seeing how you with no reason and certainly no evidence called me a lair and said i didnt have the tapes, and your caling me obbsesed by wanting to asking questions about how some famous dogs might or might not have been bred ? you are a piece of work and i would gladly call you and play you some audio and then tell you to take a hike .

By the way i agree with you that many of the men we talk about have not lead the msot saintly of lives ,and as such just
blindly taking anyones word is stupid, but you see the audios which don recodred are his conversations with other men talking also so we have the words of more than one man , so that always helps when weighing up any theorys any of us may have , but there are some people who are dishonest in one way but wouldnt be dishonest about something else, and theirs many examples of that, im sure we all know or have a friend who might in one way have negative points but we like
them , but as we know them we can make exceptions for that side of them, and the same goes im sure for every damn one of us.

Now NQK you can choose to be the lesser man and to make me such an appology shows what a little man you really are , but if thats the level of man you are then you are no sportsman , even two fighters shake hands win or lose, and to be honest i dont dislike you i never have , its you who decided you disliked me since i told you something you didnt like hearing about, and i was actually trying to help you , but thats your loss not mine, and ever since all you do is try to put me down and even accused me of lying with no good reason , so before you go calling anyone a lair or obbssed take a good look at yourself NQK and if you have any decency you will give me an honest appology not that shamefull sarcastic one you posted , that was a disgracefull thing to do but as i am a bigger man than you merry chrsitmas all the same .

You are insane dude.
Worry about things you can control and forget everything else.
I dislike you based on the bullshit you spew on here constantly. You are that guy, no matter what is presented or brought to you, you will NEVER change. You are a stagnant pool of water that ultimately becomes so toxic it's poison.
As for honest people in some areas and not others - BULLSHIT! A guy is either honest or he's not.

I don't know if you are liar or not, but your tapes prove absolutely NOTHING! NO ONE on this planet can confirm those tapes are the men you claim them to be. No one can prove they are not. If this shit went to a court of law, your tapes WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED. YOU KNOW WHY??????? B/c no one can prove it's them. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. However, it's what you hang ALL of your "proof" on. It is not enough. I' not even saying that you are wrong - but that you CANNOT IN ANY WAY IN HELL PROVE IT - SO THEREFORE - LET IT GO.

I apologize for calling you a liar as I don't KNOW if you are lying or not.
I also apologize for your ignorance that you cannot see or understand yourself.

[No Quarter Kennel]

I think Mayfield recorded conversations with other dogmen without their consent b/c 1. He was paranoid as hell 2. He wanted to use confidential info for and against different people and 3. He was probably a fucking snitch and used these tapes against rivals.

Why in the hell else would someone tape conversations of other people

[Officially Retired]

I dont think she was off Ironhead, I think it's very possible she was off Bullyson x Amber. I personally believe her to be off Ch Cracker who is Amber's sire. In fact many of the Jeep dogs I've owned and came across resemble Cracker more than anything. The buckskin with the black ticked in is something that holds true even today in heavy bred Jeep/Honeybunch dogs. I truly believe if Honey isn't off Bully x Amber then she is directly off Cracker possible inbred Cracker back to his daughter Amber.

This is what I believe also ...

[Officially Retired]

I think Mayfield recorded conversations with other dogmen without their consent b/c 1. He was paranoid as hell 2. He wanted to use confidential info for and against different people and 3. He was probably a fucking snitch and used these tapes against rivals.
Why in the hell else would someone tape conversations of other people

I can understand why, because it sets a precedence of the person being a liar.

I taped 3 conversations of me and Pat Patrick, a long time ago when I was a beginner, when he and I were on the verge of falling out. I was a green nobody then, and he had personally told me of the "true breeding" of so many dogs, that I felt this needed to be documented. So I do "get" why Mayfield would want to preserve on tape "the true breedings" behind some famous dogs. (Same as Bobby Smith got Pat Patrick to admit Ch Blaze was really off of Reuben.) I personally never made my tapes public ... but I may too someday when I am old, angry, and bored ... same as I did when I published Smith's tape when I The Truth about Mason's Ch Hammer

This doesn't necessarily make a person a snitch; it might be the only way for the truth to get out. I could likewise publish the tapes with Patrick admitting how Buck, Cheryl Tiegs, and Ch Chewy are really bred, but since I don't run dogs down from these lines (like I do Ch Hammer), I have never bothered.

Jack

PS: Ultimately, I agree it doesn't matter anymore, but it does make for interesting historical footnotes for discussion.