DISPUTED OR FAKE PEDS FROM THE PAST AND PRESENT .

[evolutionkennels]

Evo i could care less if you and the rest of the folks on here think im retarded , but first thing is i think that its disgracefull that you find handicapped children funny and would post that foto even if its to poke fun at me, your just like that school yard bully who thinks hes the bees knees , but im sure anyone on here who may have a child like that would find that offensive and you and the others who think its funny should be ashamed of yourselves , i hope you never have one of your own then see how funny it is and maybe the fact that you posted that foto makes you a little more like the person your trying to paint me as evo . But secondly for you
and the others who might find that funny ,rather than try to make fun of me, why dont you smart alecks try tell me how you get a square peg into the round hole that is floyds story
and the facts regarding blind billy, this is after all is a thread about dogs with disputed pedigrees , or are you so
lacking in any ideas that you take the easy and curs way out evo but then i shouldnt be surpirsed about that i suppose coming from a man or men who would find that foto funny regardless of who its designed to riddicule , and what i would find far more eassy to riddicule is a person or persons who are entitled to their views just as i am , but when faced with facts that they cant dsipute with anymore substantial facts themselves to prove otherwise, would deem to riddicule that person rather than show thier own iron clad theory
that would indeed support that riddicule ,but of ocourse what we get is the bottom of the garbage in a person that can find it funny to post such a foto , maybe its more a true reflection of themselves .

I never said you won the argument! But if the shoe fits...... WEAR IT. The picture implies that arguing about something as you have for as long as you have is as effective as Muhammad Ali applying for Barber school licence suffering from Parkinsons, NOT VERY REALISTIC. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I've listened to some of the Mayfield you tube videos, and if you ask me, the kid in the picture probably sounds more intelligent. Now, that being said, I vehemently apologize if I offended anyone by using that picture. Yes, I have a sense of humor, yes, it pushes the envelope, but I wonder if you read the fine print. This board is tired of your rants. You lost the argument the minute that you took what Mayfield said as FACT, it's not , IT'S HIS OPINION, and I guarantee he put his pants on in the Am just like YOU DO.

[projectx]

Projectx, I realize you are a Mayfield disciple ... and that you probably wear Mayfield t-shirts and say your prayers to Mayfield at night ... but please don't start talking to me as if "you" are now Mayfield ... because it really can't get much more embarrassing for you at this point


Jack

.
Jack[/QUOTE]

Jack im a mayfield fan yes , but if you are also sinking to having to try to sheep dip me rather than if you are intersted of course in the thread, to maybe give me a more real world scenario that disputes the blind billy one that is not mine but floyds
own words, but so far it seems like the only disciples around here wear floyd t shirts along with huge rose coloured glasses
and believe me jack unlike many who think there so damn good i would never claim to be on mayfields level but no one on this thread is either , and what i find embarasing is a men on here who call themselves knowledgeable but put up embarasing scenarios to cover up for what is the truth ,that jack is truly embarasing, and for you to also think its funny to put up fotos of downs syndrome kid to poke fun at me, surprises me jack , we may not agree on much but i never thought you were a person that would allow a foto like that to be posted, not becasue of me but for anyone who may have a child like that and think that you guys find it funny regardless of if its to poke fun at me or anyone else , thats not nice jack
and your obvious taking of sides against me becasue of our locking horns once before is showing itself by the way you always pull me up about anything i say, but tell randy what a fair post he made,or say nothing when others insult me and worse, when randys words were an outright putdown of mayfield and quotes from others which adde no new evidence or theorys to any of the dogs so far mentioned, and he just posts as a direct way to stick the knife in again on mayfield ,and that is starting to look a little one sided jack and referee
seems to be in on it.

SO jack if randys sticking the knife into mayfield on every post he makes is fair, of course he always starts by saying WELL I HAVE NOTHING AGAISNT MAYFIELD , then goes on to character asasinate him but thats fair in your view sorry very fair, wow, well hows this for fair, two can play that game, as in my posts regardless of who agrees with it or not, i have made my posts based on evidence not just the man , but now lets play randys way shall we. A good dogman in arizona once told me that anything floyd told him he wouldnt believe , now hows that for fair jack , we can all say stuff out of context, that is just for a personal agenda, but neither randy or anyone else has offered a reasonalbe theory because their isn't one realistic expalntion with a shread of proof to contradict the facts with any certianty, but you and others feel in your rights to riddicule me yet with no reason other than having it in for me and maybe just like lots of untruths when we start to reveal them, maybe
knowing that once we start down the rabbit hole of truth , the fear of how deep will it take us is not something all men can face , it takes a little more courage than normal
to go that deep jack, but in the end its always worth it if one has a value for the truth.


Jack[/QUOTE]

[projectx]

I never said you won the argument! But if the shoe fits...... WEAR IT. The picture implies that arguing about something as you have for as long as you have is as effective as Muhammad Ali applying for Barber school licence suffering from Parkinsons, NOT VERY REALISTIC. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I've listened to some of the Mayfield you tube videos, and if you ask me, the kid in the picture probably sounds more intelligent. Now, that being said, I vehemently apologize if I offended anyone by using that picture. Yes, I have a sense of humor, yes, it pushes the envelope, but I wonder if you read the fine print. This board is tired of your rants. You lost the argument the minute that you took what Mayfield said as FACT, it's not , IT'S HIS OPINION, and I guarantee he put his pants on in the Am just like YOU DO.

EVo first off im asking you a direct question based on floyds words not mayfields and the evidence we have for the blind billy and eli story do you as an inteligent man really beleive billy was sired by dibo ,and if so please give a better explanation to counter the facts we do have and not make believe scenarios .

Secondly you may think mayfield is retarded by that comment you made, but that again is just insulting a man who wasnt so retared that he put toggether enough stuff with the foresight to know thier would always be doubters to what he may say , and the audios certainly prove he was no retard.

THirdly you say im ranting but if you attack i defend , but others who protest just as vehmently that they dont believe it, are also ranting ,but with no evidence other than not wanting to believe the floyd the legend might actually have lied and stolen a litter frommayfield which he made a huge part of his and clemmons name from ,but you find that ok do you ?
I never asked for an argument, the thread is therre for people to talk about famous dogs who have had some doubt placed to their true breeding, and apart from a few people everyone else has either attacked me for putting my view forward onl billy, which i have my opinions on as others have theirs, but no dog talked about other than blind billy has had such a propoderance of the evidence pointing to a realistic truth other than blind billy, but even seemingly inteligent men who
should know better either started to make up fantastic scenarios to make it not so or just attack me by doing the old make
enough noise so that you distract others from the reality , which i have never done , i have argued on all dogs either for or against depending on the overall evidence we had including hearsay and circumtnatial as in tombstones case, but eventhough i dont believe gina was tombstones dam and neither did jack, i cant say she wasnt, and neither could mayfield, but on billy evo
if someone wants to prove the facts that we do have wrong then i will be the first to say ok , because im not bothered
as long as we get the truth if we can,and you wont find me crying that mayfield was wrong ,but so far on billy not one person has shown any proof to counter the proof we do have, so why are you all willing to attack me and mayfield when you have no good reason other than fear of the rabbit hole and how deep it goes.

[No Quarter Kennel]

I can understand why, because it sets a precedence of the person being a liar.

I taped 3 conversations of me and Pat Patrick, a long time ago when I was a beginner, when he and I were on the verge of falling out. I was a green nobody then, and he had personally told me of the "true breeding" of so many dogs, that I felt this needed to be documented. So I do "get" why Mayfield would want to preserve on tape "the true breedings" behind some famous dogs. (Same as Bobby Smith got Pat Patrick to admit Ch Blaze was really off of Reuben.) I personally never made my tapes public ... but I may too someday when I am old, angry, and bored ... same as I did when I published Smith's tape when I The Truth about Mason's Ch Hammer

This doesn't necessarily make a person a snitch; it might be the only way for the truth to get out. I could likewise publish the tapes with Patrick admitting how Buck, Cheryl Tiegs, and Ch Chewy are really bred, but since I don't run dogs down from these lines (like I do Ch Hammer), I have never bothered.

Jack

PS: Ultimately, I agree it doesn't matter anymore, but it does make for interesting historical footnotes for discussion.

I see all of that. Makes sense. I sincerely apologize to......well, nah, I'll just take this good perspective and admit, I can totally see this.

You guys have a great New Year

[Foxman]

ProjectX You enter this man's web and twist and turn everything you can to make someone think you have stumbled onto the pot of Gold. It is a good thing that this isn't my web because your words along with the whole topic would vanish into the air without a stain left on this board. Your thoughts are not showing facts about anything. You rant on and on like your needle is stuck on an old 45-RPM record. You are like a child that was just dropped into a mans world with no idea of the past or present. How does your kind of people stumble into a real dog man's world. I am not assassinating Mayfield I am simply stating the facts. If I have an opinion about anything that deviates from your dream. You think I am a bad crazy know nothing person and so is anyone else that has a thought. I'm not sure if you can have any open thoughts a day. You think it, you type it, You believe it, so it is so. Like I said your one Lucky man this isn't my web. I might have told a thing or two that wasn't part of the debate about Mayfield. It wasn't to hurt Mayfield it was to show you he was a man and not a perfect man and he was far down the morale charcter chain for someone who should be worshipped. What we did was break laws for our entertainment at the dogs expense in those days. That doesn't make any of us a Saint. I always ask God to forgive me for what I was fixing to do when I fought a dog. Because I wasn't sure he liked me doing that. I have ask God many times to forgive me for what I done since then. Randy Fox.

[No Quarter Kennel]

Nqk i completly agree that mayfield never had their consent, im sure they wouldnt have said the things they did had they known he was recording them , which actually makes the tapes that much more interesting and important, and he probably was paranoid , with good reason, but to call him a snitch , there you go again NQK full accusations with no proof as usuall you must like calling folks lairs but not even a theory on any of the dogs so far, just here to throw shit and hate on me and mayfield , well at least try to put up a theory if dont believe a man like i have done with floyd , at least it isnt just becasue i hate him , i dont but i dont believe him on blind billy, but at least i try to explain why ,what do you do on this thread NQK apart from insult me and look for fight that you cant win , maybe actually making a post about the dogs might be an idea to get you started with .

Here you go ProjectX - You ready? Sincere, all the way. Since I don't know for a fact that you lied, I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart apologize for calling you a liar. To break it down even further and to make sure you all understand - I APOLOGIZE FOR CALLING YOU A LIAR! Sincere and all.

Now I would expect a "MAN" to apologize back at me for calling me all those tasteless things you called me now. Making accusations against my manhood???? That hurts and being a "real man" of honesty and integrity, I expect a full apology from you now.

Now, my contribution to what agitates you so much. 1st - For any man to have 400 recorded conversations with anyone, for any reason turns me away from that person instantly. Seriously. What is driving or burning this guy up inside so bad to motivate him to spend (in my opinion waste) this much time just to be able to say "AH HA - GOTCHA". Seriously. Nothing but this thread has come from Mayfield and his recordings. Nothing fruitful in any sense of the meaning. 2nd - You say calling him a snitch is doing so "with no proof". This is exactly what you are doing. You are calling people liars, which you don't like to be called, with no proof. Recordings of people saying things doesn't make anyone a liar, unless, you can prove who's on the tapes. If you can't do that, then you sir, "have no proof". So I'm merely doing the same thing you are doing. To take it a step further, to show you how nice and willing I am to work with you, I actually DO BELIEVE that it's Mayfield on your tapes, but still, me believing, you believing and everyone on this planet believing anything, does not PROVE anything to be a fact. So you are stirring a pot, as interesting as it might could be, with NO PROOF.

So, my contribution to your topic is not about the dogs as I have stated and will continue to do so, I couldn't care less about the breeding of the dogs you mention. It won't do me, my dogs, or anyone else any good to change the pedigree of the dogs you brought here. Even if you are right and the ADBA changes the pedigree - what was gained? Nothing. Nothing of substance anyways. No one is going to go out, put their entire yard down and start over are they? No one is going to build a memorial to Don Mayfield and proclaim him the most honest of all dogmen that ever lived or give him credit for anything other than what he's already done. He's dead as is this conspiracy theory stuff guys keep digging up.

I believe this a wasted endeavor - this straightening out of pedigrees based on NO PROVABLE FACTS! That is my contribution and since I apologized, I'll look for your apology since you set the bar so high and the standard for integrity.

Take care, hope you find what you seek and may the Good Lord bless you and yours in 2014

[projectx]

You enter this man's web and twist and turn everything you can to make someone think you have stumbled onto the pot of Gold. It is a good thing that this isn't my web because your words along with the whole topic would vanish into the air without a stain left on this board. Your thoughts are not showing facts about anything. You rant on and on like your needle is stuck on an old 45-RPM record. You are like a child that was just dropped into a mans world with no idea of the past or present. How does your kind of people stumble into a real dog man's world. I am not assassinating Mayfield I am simply stating the facts. If I have an opinion about anything that deviates from your dream. You think I am a bad crazy know nothing person and so is anyone else that has a thought. I'm not sure if you can have any open thoughts a day. You think it, you type it, You believe it, so it is so. Like I said your one Lucky man this isn't my web/ Randy Fox.

Randy you are a hoot , its hard to get angry at you that but for you to say that i am coming on here twistng words from you is like the pot calling the kettle black.I put the views that are out there regarding some dogs, of which we have all had our say, and we have even agrred to disagree on gina v baby, and i agrreed it could be either i wouldnt swear to it, but then we get to blind billy, and boom your head explodes because you or anyone else can make the hat fit can you, and you are
now trying to turn the tables on me to somehow try to make this whole thing go away just incase someone actually works it out and realises that mayfield yes mayfield was correct along with more than a few dogmen from your time randy who didnt buy it for a new york minute .Now im damn sure in your in website no one would get to say anything that didnt pass the randy fox seal of approval, especially any truth you dont like to hear, you would love ot silence me and others like me yet you proclaim that all you say when you post is a FACT wow randy how arrogant you are , and what facts did you say in your last few posts that had anything to do with the thread or any dogs disputed pedigree ? none you use your posts to rant about me telling the truth about billy and trying to make it seem like a crime , yet you have no proof to
contradict all the known evidence we have and floyds own words and timeline so im not saying anything that isnt known and out there so you might fool some people randy ,but its obvious to me that your not able to face the inevitable truth about blind billy and then eli which would mean your matrix would crumble under it .

I dont care if you dont agrree or anyone else, but dont accuse me of being a child, im the one putting forward the facts what are you doing but trying to put out a smokescreen but that gets blown away randy its built on nothing so gives nothing back of value , so when you stop your ranting and accuseing me of only wanting to have you or anyone else agree with me, thats not true, on all the other dogs, tombstone being a good example i have openly said that although i believe baby was the dam and you beleive gina was the dam i have accepted that it could be true either way , so i think that blows your talk about me only wanting everyone to agree with me out of the water.

But in blind billys case randy all i am doing is replying to all the posts directed at me but not one of you has given a realsitic theory based on more evidence (other than what if scenarios ), than we already have on both dibo and billy including floyds own words for more than 50 years , but that for some reason you want pretend doesnt exist and create a new story.

Your like the warren commision who wanted everyone to beleive in the lone gunman theory and the magic bullet when all the evidence that they hadnt destroyed pointed everywhere else but the lone gunman and the magic bullet theory.

Randy its always nice to know your so worried about me and the facts that you ar practically begging jack to ban me so you can rest easy , and that randy is the sign of a man who knows more than he wants to admit to , and a man who doesnt like a fair fight , but im right here randy make the evidence go away trump it with more than maybes and what ifs .there is more clear facts on billy than we have on any disputed dog in the game but you dont want to play ball , well i not here to convince myself, and if the horses dont want to be led to water well then they dont drink so i guess they stay thirsty.

By the way i see through your slick style you have of barbded comments towards mayfield in every post you make when you mention his name not just here but on every forum you are on, you use the old sheep dip trick of not saying outright nasty comments but constant negative things like how cold he was and how warm hearted you are to your dogs, but you dont say negative things about floyd or your friends do you then you use floyds commnet about his reply to don saying something about him Oh WELL THATS JUST DON trying to again create an image of don in a negative way just like you comment on thinking more highly of floyds as he was on a higher economic level than mayfield ,again all comments that had nothing to do with any dog story but were made solely to create a negative image of don trying show him in a bad light and floyd seem like a saint to push the eyes of people away from the only facts as you call them that we have which are the ones that show the truth
in this case randy , becasue if you had any proof other than your desire to make it true, by god you would have produced it in a heartbeat if anything that could prove mayfield wrong and floyd right , but i ask everyone to take note of how randy has never been able to post anything to do with billy that can disprove the fatcs we do have and that in every post where he mentions mayfield he always (after his clever intial i liked don comment) goes on to say things that have nothing to do with the dogs were talking about, but makes a personal sniping and barbed comments designed to assisinate dons character to make anything don may have said less believable even when its true , all i ask anyone to do is look at the facts we have and without making up what if scenarios , be honest either on here or to yourselves and understand what the truth is here and i think it wil be hard to come to any other conclusion based on the evidence and facts we have, that blind billy is not out of dibo and eli can then also be put in doubt and the high probabilty is that eli was indeed out of crybaby x cotton , and i am happy to leave it there guys, and as long as none of you comes back just attacking me for the sake of it i will not reply to avoid being called a ranter , but if you attack me and just make it personal rather than about trying to find out as best as we can how some famous dogs are bred ,then i will reply so please dont accuse me of ranting if i do , your post will be the reason i reply or not just remmeber that ok thank you.

[projectx]

Here you go ProjectX - You ready? Sincere, all the way. Since I don't know for a fact that you lied, I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart apologize for calling you a liar. To break it down even further and to make sure you all understand - I APOLOGIZE FOR CALLING YOU A LIAR! Sincere and all.

Now I would expect a "MAN" to apologize back at me for calling me all those tasteless things you called me now. Making accusations against my manhood???? That hurts and being a "real man" of honesty and integrity, I expect a full apology from you now.

Now, my contribution to what agitates you so much. 1st - For any man to have 400 recorded conversations with anyone, for any reason turns me away from that person instantly. Seriously. What is driving or burning this guy up inside so bad to motivate him to spend (in my opinion waste) this much time just to be able to say "AH HA - GOTCHA". Seriously. Nothing but this thread has come from Mayfield and his recordings. Nothing fruitful in any sense of the meaning. 2nd - You say calling him a snitch is doing so "with no proof". This is exactly what you are doing. You are calling people liars, which you don't like to be called, with no proof. Recordings of people saying things doesn't make anyone a liar, unless, you can prove who's on the tapes. If you can't do that, then you sir, "have no proof". So I'm merely doing the same thing you are doing. To take it a step further, to show you how nice and willing I am to work with you, I actually DO BELIEVE that it's Mayfield on your tapes, but still, me believing, you believing and everyone on this planet believing anything, does not PROVE anything to be a fact. So you are stirring a pot, as interesting as it might could be, with NO PROOF.

So, my contribution to your topic is not about the dogs as I have stated and will continue to do so, I couldn't care less about the breeding of the dogs you mention. It won't do me, my dogs, or anyone else any good to change the pedigree of the dogs you brought here. Even if you are right and the ADBA changes the pedigree - what was gained? Nothing. Nothing of substance anyways. No one is going to go out, put their entire yard down and start over are they? No one is going to build a memorial to Don Mayfield and proclaim him the most honest of all dogmen that ever lived or give him credit for anything other than what he's already done. He's dead as is this conspiracy theory stuff guys keep digging up.

I believe this a wasted endeavor - this straightening out of pedigrees based on NO PROVABLE FACTS! That is my contribution and since I apologized, I'll look for your apology since you set the bar so high and the standard for integrity.

Take care, hope you find what you seek and may the Good Lord bless you and yours in 2014

NQK thank you for your appology albiet long overdue and looking at your post hardly well meant as you continue to try and make me out to be like you , when the difference is that you called me a lair saying i didnt have any tapes, which i infact did , so you called me a lair based on nothiog but your dislike of me based on our pms about things you didnt like hearing but you did ask me why i said it so i told you, and then you got all defensive and ever since its lets try to attack projectx
which resulted in you calling me a liar and then having to appolgise, when maybe it would have been better to just pm me and i could have called you and played you some of the audios over the phone , hell i might even have mad a copy for you .

Now i have not called anyone a liar like you called me, i have said in my view based on the evidence that we do have on blind billy that i believe floyd is lying but based on the facts we have and floyds own timeline and story, you had neither of those things when you called me a lair about the audios so its not quite the same thing at all, as i was infact able to prove i wasn't lying , but so far no one has been able to prove floyd wasnt.

Which now conviently you and everyone else dont want to see it as facts, eventhough the dobs and floyds own words havent changed in 50 plus years ,and based on those facts i have said that i dont beleive floyd and i do infact think he is lying, but i have done so not blindly like you did to me, that indeed would be very stupid wouldnt it, no i have questioned floyds version based on abda pedigrees floyds own story of the year he got billy and the very well, known and docunmented never questioned story of dibo and his life, which when you actually do a little research puts more than enough doubt on floyds version , but that is very different to you or me just blindly out of nothing more than hate or anger
calling a man a liar based on zero evidence of any kind.

Now mayfield made those tapes precisley for the reasons jack explained in him recodring pat patrick , to make sure he
could infact keep a record of the conversations so he could indeed have it on record if as an example when talking to maloney
he was trying to get the true breeding of tombstone from maloney or when hes talking to carver about pit general and indian sonnys involvement in that it was being able to understsand who was who and what was bullshit and what wasnt, mayfield said that the match with other dogmen wasnt only in the pit, he said that you can here the match in the audios as there is a lot that people say
that they say to tell you what they want you to hear and theres also lots of truth, and mayfield knew that, but i never said any of the audios were a fact , i said that it helps to hear them and then using all the pieces of the puzzle we are trying to fit toggehter ,we make our chice as to what we believe, and infact mayfield didnt breed to tombstone and sold him becasue he could never be 100% sure he was out of baby,although he felt sure he was , so i never have said that me you or anyone should take those audios as a fact, but more as a very intersting piece of gameodg history which if my few are anytihng to go by god only knows what other great stuff is on the rest of them, and im sure NQK even you who says he has no interest in long gone dogs , which is a shame as i think the more true pedigrees we have the better, but thats you and thats me, plus of course being a fair man as you claim to be i am sure if mayfield was infact elis breder you would not deny him that right would you NQK im sure you wouldnt like that if that happened to you, and im also sure that if you had access to those audios and were able to hear earl tudor talking that would interest you as it should ,and the man we need to thank for that is don mayfield he collected a libary of audios and documents that he said evrytime the indian sonny was at his place he always wanted to get into dons old wooden trunks full of pedigrees but never did lol , its a shame don is being treated like a nobody who has to compete with dog peddlers for some respect, when he deserves so much more from the game he certainly doesnt deserve that.

Nqk one last thing you say that this whole thing is a pointless endeavour , which in many cases is correct, do you beleive your pedigrees that you got from the adba ? (yes)then why doubt the dob on dibo which is not and has never been in question, billy was born in 1952 dibo born march 1951 and unless anyone can prove otherwise dibo didnt get to earls untill at least late 1953 or 1954 and theres never been any record of dibo being bred before that earls , so going by the things we can prove from dobs and arguably thestory of the most famous dog of the modern era in dibo are you saying that the proof is not there ,for in that case neither are yours mine or anyone elses if we want to call the dobs into question then why not everyones .

Now nqk i will galdly appolgise to you if you feel i need to, but first i think that i still need an appology without the follow on comments that is not an appolgy so when you send me that i will as a man of my word give you the same and equal courtesy ok .





N

[Officially Retired]

.
Jack im a mayfield fan yes , but if you are also sinking to having to try to sheep dip me rather than if you are intersted of course in the thread, to maybe give me a more real world scenario that disputes the blind billy one that is not mine but floyds
own words, but so far it seems like the only disciples around here wear floyd t shirts along with huge rose coloured glasses

Without being disrespectful, I don't care one wit about Floyd Boudreaux either.
Never wanted that line of dogs, though I am well aware of their accomplishments.

I laugh in your face if you believe I wear rose-colored glasses about him or any other dogman.

.
and believe me jack unlike many who think there so damn good i would never claim to be on mayfields level but no one on this thread is either , and what i find embarasing is a men on here who call themselves knowledgeable but put up embarasing scenarios to cover up for what is the truth ,that jack is truly embarasing,

Mayfield's level? WTF does that mean?

You can put Mayfield on some super-high level "above you" (on some heoric pedestal) if you'd like, but I certainly don't put him above myself, on ANY level, save maybe as a knowledgeable conditioner of dogs for his day.
On every other subject that pertains to dogs, from medical knowledge, to knowledge of diseases and nutritional information, to the knowledge of how to successfully breed one's own family of dogs, I am FAR more knowledgeable than Mayfield ever dreamed to be.

I do have a modicum of respect for the man as a conditioner, as well as for being around (and a part of) the foundational history for our breed ... but most of what he did is now considered outdated ... and there are too many levels where I would not want to be "like him" in any way, shape, or form.

.
and for you to also think its funny to put up fotos of downs syndrome kid to poke fun at me, surprises me jack , we may not agree on much but i never thought you were a person that would allow a foto like that to be posted, not becasue of me but for anyone who may have a child like that and think that you guys find it funny regardless of if its to poke fun at me or anyone else , thats not nice jack

First of all, I never claimed to be nice. I try to run a class operation here ... and I will not allow porn or vile nasty stuff to be posted here. I try to allow freedom of speech, so long as it isn't vile or abusive, and I think harmless posts like what Evo put are just that ... harmless fun. And, quite frankly, I agree with his gist: namely that you are the textbook definition of someone who lacks the sense as to when to shut up and just drop a subject. On EVERY thread where you've posted, you have ultimately turned it into an insane, never-ending digression of repetitive stupidity where you have basically had to be told to SHUT UP before you finally do.

.
and your obvious taking of sides against me becasue of our locking horns once before is showing itself by the way you always pull me up about anything i say, but tell randy what a fair post he made,or say nothing when others insult me and worse, when randys words were an outright putdown of mayfield and quotes from others which adde no new evidence or theorys to any of the dogs so far mentioned, and he just posts as a direct way to stick the knife in again on mayfield ,and that is starting to look a little one sided jack and referee
seems to be in on it.

I actually joined in on this thread in a positive way, trying to bury the hatchet with you, trying to let bygones be bygones, and I participated constructively on the first page or so.
(Go back and re-read the first page, genius.)

However, EVERYONE HERE has gotten sick of you droning on-and-on-and-on-and-on about Don Mayfield's theories. Every one.

You don't seem to have the sense to understand anything around you.
You don't seem to have the sense to let well enough alone and move on.
Time and time again, you digress into a never-ending diatribe of mindless stupidity.
Tine and time again, you have to be forced to shut up.

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SO jack if randys sticking the knife into mayfield on every post he makes is fair, of course he always starts by saying WELL I HAVE NOTHING AGAISNT MAYFIELD , then goes on to character asasinate him but thats fair in your view sorry very fair, wow, well hows this for fair, two can play that game, as in my posts regardless of who agrees with it or not, i have made my posts based on evidence not just the man , but now lets play randys way shall we.

Randy is allowed to say what he wants, to an extent, as you are allowed to say what you want, to an extent.

Randy's opinion is more valuable than yours because he lived through these times ... whereas you are just a guy parroting "what you heard" on a video

This doesn't mean I believe everything Randy says, and it doesn't mean that I don't, but I *do* find his statements more interesting, compelling, and closer to what OTHER old-timers I personally know (who lived through this era also) have always said about Mayfield.

With all due respect, you are just a parrot here by comparison, repeating things with ZERO actual knowledge or experience of what you repeat.

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A good dogman in arizona once told me that anything floyd told him he wouldnt believe , now hows that for fair jack , we can all say stuff out of context, that is just for a personal agenda, but neither randy or anyone else has offered a reasonalbe theory because their isn't one realistic expalntion with a shread of proof to contradict the facts with any certianty, but you and others feel in your rights to riddicule me yet with no reason other than having it in for me and maybe just like lots of untruths when we start to reveal them, maybe

Like I said, I could care less about Floyd Boudreaux also, and I have heard it said the only time Floyd lies is when he opens his mouth ... so what?
Heard the same thing about Carver too. Heard Tudor was a wife-beater, liar, and a cheat. Again, so what?

They were just DOGmen, not saints. Not people to emulate.

I would listen intently to what Carver had to say about breeding dogs ... or which dogs HE had that were his favorites ... and WHY ... and it would be of great historical interest to me.
I would do the same thing to what Tudor had to say about his breedings ... or which dogs were HIS favorites ... and WHY ... and it would likewise be of great historical interest to me.
Same with Mayfield.

But I would take NONE of these men's advice on what to feed, what to do medically ... and I don't need anyone's advice on how to breed my own dogs ... and I sure as shit wouldn't trust ANY of these men to be alone with my woman or to keep and feed a super-valuable dog of mine on their yards. Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

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knowing that once we start down the rabbit hole of truth , the fear of how deep will it take us is not something all men can face , it takes a little more courage than normal
to go that deep jack, but in the end its always worth it if one has a value for the truth.

Oh please spare me this overly-dramatic greenhorn bullshit

Other than peripheral historical interest, I don't give a damn about Blind Billy and his breeding, Floyd's dogs, nor Mayfield's. Has nothing to do with me, my goals, my bloodline, nor anything I can in any way control ... nor would it affect me in any way if I were still breeding my own dogs.

If Don Mayfield were to come here and start debating Floyd, that would be interesting.
Randy Fox coming here to give his $0.02 about the situation is interesting.

But "you" (a guy who has nothing to do with anything) repeating yourself and going on--and-on-and-f***ing-on about this shit is nauseating.

Jack

[CYJ]

Here we go again, here is another monkey wrench in the spokes so to speak of. I am fixing to really throw down some good ole hear say. There have been several articles written on the famed Henry dogs that Tudor used. Not all came black, some came snow white and sure other colors. Probably the earliest articles just speaking of his dogs are the most correct.

One of the articles on Jack Kelley's site had that same type article asking the question. Why all the black dogs Boudreaux suddenly came up with. For as I am concerned only he knows, I certainly do not know and as of today no longer care.

The story centers around AKA Dirty Harry and Scotty Nelson. Seems Scotty Nelson was told by (I do not know who). That Earl Tudor bought dogs from England from I assume the same source that the Henry dogs came from. ( Note I am Assuming a lot here). LOL

That Tudor had some of these dogs on into the mid 50's. That he kept two sets of record keeping and registered all those crosses under the Dibo line of dogs. That most of these Dogs came black or black brindle with even black gums. Were said to be very rough hard biting dogs, but in some cases liking deep gaminess. What was referred to as those crazy, hot to fight, red eyed black Henry dogs.

Now if that is some of the Truth about Mr. Tudor's dogs and I myself am not saying it is. Mayfield trying to claim he has the purest Blue Blooded Henry dogs is still a moot point. Being Tudor supposedly kept two sets of dog registries. Who if any, really got the most of the Henry breeding in their Tudor dogs. If this be true only Tudor knows who got what.

Now on the other hand, knowing how most of the older family's of USA dogs are bred. I say if you want a Truer bred Tudor Old Family bred dog/with the most known Henry breeding in it. According to much more accurate pedigrees that the UKC has.

You will find the last old family Tudor/Henry dogs is in Peggy Harper's AM Staff dogs that lived not far down the road from Mr. Maurice Carver. I was sitting at the serving table in the Bowman restaurant with Mr. Teal/Mr. E. Skinner eating breakfast, many years ago. Something came up about Carver and his dogs. That is when I heard that if Mrs. Harper got one of those staffs that would not refuse to fight any dog it saw. Became uncontrollable.

She called Mr. Carver, and he came and picked the dog up. The Staff was checked out and if showed deep gaminess etc. Was bred in his stock of dogs. Now once again (hear say) and if done no one knows how many times.

I have talked before about Mr. Ralph Dailey's last dogs, who lived in Sumter S.C. From the talk about staff x pits being crossed from Mr. Teal and Egan. A. Howle and self visited this older dog breeder in Sumter S.C.. To find he had some straight Tacoma/Doyle Staff dogs and some Tacoma/Doyle x Charles Medlin crossed dogs. We got a dog and bitch off the Tacoma/Doyle x Medlin cross.

These dogs were black and white and turned out to be very good dogs. We both being rank rookies and thinking we could go back to that well and get more like them. Matched the male and he took his death while giving out a lot of punishment and receiving it. Never made a bad move proving to be dead game. The bitch lost her life in a five minute freak roll accident on my Ginger bitch off Snake x Tina cross. Died in a matter of seconds without a whimper. When we lost her was both very upset.

We borrowed money from the bank and went back to get some more dogs from Mr. Dailey. That well had run dry as he had died. His wife gave away or had the remaining dogs put down. Took years of dog papers and all the UKC Blood line journals he had and much more to the dump. Offered us no useable info., told us to leave and never come back.

One of MR. Dailey's straight bred Staff bitch dogs that was popular in the Camden S.C. area. Was a bitch dog called Foots. She had won at least two or three matches and was a very good dog. Very strong well built light brindle bitch with white stocking feet. Hench the name Foots.

Foots was bred to the famed Kelly's Willie dog and to McNeil's (Young's) Chuck dog. I saw Foots and her pups off Chuck on McNeil's yard. Went back later in hopes of buying a couple of the pups. Foots and the pups were gone and McNeil did not want to say who had them. I suspected their had been some paper changing to cover up the Staff breeding.

Was one Bitch off the Willie x Foots breeding that a Black man owned. He kept this bitch in ready to go off the chain condition. Beat and killed a lot of dogs brought there just to whip her.

So it appears that maybe Tudor and Carver along with some local dog men did or may have used some Staff blood up into the mid 70's or so. Probably not today.

Mike Ferris used a lot of the Doyle/Tacoma dogs and just maybe, (just maybe) Tudor might have as well. Instead of spending money to ship Staff dogs from England. I would think it would cost good money back then to ship a Staff dog from England. I did not get the impression that Tudor was a wealthy man that could spend money in that fashion. Once again only he knew. If there is a will there is a way. Once again if the stories and rumors be true.

So, see how I have added interesting true story's with some rumors or hear say that can not be proven today or back then. If one has well built, good acting dogs today. All the dogs look a like and not a Heinz 57 assortment of looking dogs. You are ahead of the game. Only one thing left to do some day. That is the oil checking/ culling process/matching process that will prove the real deal Truth for all to see and know. Cheers