Kibble and Raw

[rodburner]

Okay, I will try to keep my sense of humor, but it fries me the (sorry, yes) LAME shit people say. For example: just found something the dogs seem to like.

WTH does that mean?
Dogs like pretty much anything
So you're telling me that you base what you feed on what "your dogs seem to like" rather than actual knowledge of feeding principles?
I'll bet if you feed them pancakes & syrup they'll wolf it down ... so maybe you should switch to pancakes & syrup because "the dogs seem to like it"

I think Skipper hit the nail on the head: I think people who feed raw "and" kibble really don't know what they're doing ... can't read or understand what's-what ... and so try to "do everything" to make themselves feel like they "haven't missed something."

So I will try to laugh with you, and maybe you're a very busy guy, and no lazy in other areas, but you sure aren't doing a good job of feeding your dogs.

That I can say for sure.

Jack

well bud you seem to want to take this to another level....so..i'll invite you not only to follow me but take a look at my dogs also cuz. till then we'll just have to agree to disagree.and I think you know exzactly what I ment by my last post. but if you choose to turn it around that's on you. yea my dogs like it and I like the way they look and act. and they're super healthy. and you're welcome anytime my friend... anytime!.

[Officially Retired]

well bud you seem to want to take this to another level....so..i'll invite you not only to follow me but take a look at my dogs also cuz. till then we'll just have to agree to disagree.and I think you know exzactly what I ment by my last post. but if you choose to turn it around that's on you. yea my dogs like it and I like the way they look and act. and they're super healthy. and you're welcome anytime my friend... anytime!.

Take this on another level?
The only level you seem to want to keep this on is ignorant.

I am sorry I get frustrated with foolishness, but you make dull statements and have nothing of substance to say.
Do you have anything of value to say, or just the same old defensive BS for mediocrity?

If you actually know something about canine nutrition, speak it.
If you actually know nothing about canine nutrition, then don't speak.
It's pretty much that simple: the practices of the ignorant mean nothing.

If you think your dogs "look and act fine," and that this means anything, then there's no point in my discussing the subject of nutrition with you.
Can you give a thoughtful analysis as to why the way you feed is the way to go, or can you only say, "My dogs look and act fine."?

Hell, my first 7 years in dogs I fed my dogs Diamond dogfood and they "looked and acted fine" too ... for years (or so I thought) ... until they started falling apart when they got old.
I was just as clueless as you are now, once, thinking I was doing the right thing by "feeding cheap."

Only with the benefit of hindsight, and actually feeding OPTIMALLY, did I finally look back and realize my dogs had been giving signs of not looking so good (missing hair on their muzzle, toes, etc.) for quite awhile before the signs were so obvious I could see them clear as day

Go feed a teenage kid McDonald's ... and mix it with some good food ... and that kid will "look and act fine" also.
But WTH does that have to do with the subject of optimal nutrition? NOTHING.

How some kid "looks and acts" fed a mix of shitty food and good food doesn't mean he's being fed optimally.
How your young dogs "look and act" being fed a mix of shit-kibble and a chicken part doesn't mean they're being fed optimally either.

OVER TIME is when the ill-effects of a substandard diet begin to take their toll ... and a person who never upgrades will never know the drastic difference a truly good diet can and does make.

I have had veteran dogmen hand me dogs they called "in great health," and the dog looked like shit to me.
But they couldn't see it. These people had never seen an older dog in optimal health, because they'd been feeding shit food their whole life.

There is no point in discussing subjects with people who have no true knowledge and do nothing but "defend their substandard practices" with childish threats or by inviting me to their yards.

I have seen, and FED, more dogs, for more years ... and TRULY tried to upgrade my diets ... than 99.999999999999% of anyone alive in the game today ...
I don't need to "see your dogs" to gain a clue in how to feed dogs. Really, I don't.

The fact is, it's quite the opposite ...

Jack

[rodburner]

JACK THE DUDE ASKED A QUESTION AND I GIVE MY INPUT. AM I THE BEST AT IT? HECK NO! DO I CLAIM TO BE ? HECK NO? I JUST OFFERED UP MY .02. DID I TRY TO SWAY THE OP INTO ANYTHING? AGAIN ,NO! DANG CUZ, YOU WANT TO CALL FOLKS IDIOTS BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE THE WAY THEY DO THINGS SEEMS A BIT RUFF. BUT ITS YOUR LAPTOP AND YOUR SITE. NO SIR I AINT GOING TO OFFER ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE. ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. ITS A FREE COUNTRY AND FOLKS CAN DO WHAT THEY PLZ. AND I'VE HAD QUITE AFEW DOGS LIVE WELL AND LONG. 13,14,AND 15 YEARS. SO I CANT BE DOING A WHOLE LOT WRONG. AND JUST FOR A LITTLE FYI... THIS AINT MY FIRST RODEO!

BUT I DO RESPECT YOUR VIEWS AND ALL YOUR KNOW HOW. BUT DANG CUZ YOU STILL NEED TO EZ UP. SAME WAY WITH A KEEP WHAT WORKS FOR YOU MITE NOT WORK FOR THE NXT GUY, BUT THAT DONT MAKE HIM WRONG! DANG MAN TRY SOME MEDS!

[Officially Retired]

LOL, I did have meds ... caffeine

[Officially Retired]

PS: Sorry if it seems like I get bent easy, but I am just extremely intense on the subject of feeding dogs ... as I have seen not doing so correctly ruin dogs early ... and doing so optimally stretch out their usefulness (and reproductivity) beyond all generations before them. Ultimately, I am just trying to help by offering the best information I know how to give, not the second-best ...

[EWO]

Good series of posts. I have fed both kibble and raw, back and forth for a number of years. My first stint with raw was a horrible, out of balance raw plan. I rented a house from a guy who was a butcher by trade and had a side business processing at home. I got a five gallon bucket of any and every thing daily. The dogs got what came out of the bucket as I passed by. Maybe be red meat today, leg quarter tomorrow or back to back on either. It was free. Not the best plan, but it was free. I used kibble when the girlfriend or the neighbor was feeding for me. That worked for a number of years.

When I moved (out of the service) I did not have the freebies anymore so it was back to bag food. In time I liked the way the dogs looked on the raw so I switched back. This time with more knowledge not only about nutrition, but balance in that nutrition. I am a raw feeder today.

It is less clean up and can be cheaper if storage is available. The time is the issue for lots of people. I work 12 hour rotating swing shifts with an hour or so commute. I have to pre mix as much as possible in order to feed raw. I leave just after 5AM and do not get home until a little after 8PM. There is no time to mix and prepare for a large number of dogs (and I understand the idea of less dogs makes sense, but we know how that goes) after 8PM. It would be near 10PM before I ate and then back up again before 5AM. So time is a huge issue for a lot of people. It is not a matter of being lazy (in some cases, yes, but not all). When I go on my four and five day stretches I have to pre-mix and prepare for all the dogs.

Feeding RAW is much more difficult time and effort wise than feeding from a bag. If the dogs were my livelihood and I had 6-8-10 hours a day, every day to devote to the dogs then I could see the point where there would be no excuse not to feed raw. The benefits are over whelming in comparison. Factor in a 12 hour shift with an hour commute and there is just not enough hours in the day. I feed RAW but I take a day to pre-mix the eggs/vegetable pulp/oils/rice. I mix it in a five gallon bucket. I make one pass with this out of the bucket and then another pass with the quarters or meats for that day. I have it down to a science without a wasted step.

If I did not have the days off in between, and my time off was at night and only two weekend days I would either have to go kibble and RAW, or get rid of a bunch of dogs. But again, the dogs are not my livelihood. EWO

[rodburner]

PS: Sorry if it seems like I get bent easy, but I am just extremely intense on the subject of feeding dogs ... as I have seen not doing so correctly ruin dogs early ... and doing so optimally stretch out their usefulness (and reproductivity) beyond all generations before them. Ultimately, I am just trying to help by offering the best information I know how to give, not the second-best ...

HEY CUZ, NO PROBLEM. IF YOU WERNT INTENSE ABOUT IT I WOULDNT HAVE LISTENED. AINT NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AT ALL. AND JOB WELL DONE SIR!

[Officially Retired]

Cool.

[Officially Retired]

Good series of posts. I have fed both kibble and raw, back and forth for a number of years. My first stint with raw was a horrible, out of balance raw plan. I rented a house from a guy who was a butcher by trade and had a side business processing at home. I got a five gallon bucket of any and every thing daily. The dogs got what came out of the bucket as I passed by. Maybe be red meat today, leg quarter tomorrow or back to back on either. It was free. Not the best plan, but it was free. I used kibble when the girlfriend or the neighbor was feeding for me. That worked for a number of years.

When I moved (out of the service) I did not have the freebies anymore so it was back to bag food. In time I liked the way the dogs looked on the raw so I switched back. This time with more knowledge not only about nutrition, but balance in that nutrition. I am a raw feeder today.

It is less clean up and can be cheaper if storage is available. The time is the issue for lots of people. I work 12 hour rotating swing shifts with an hour or so commute. I have to pre mix as much as possible in order to feed raw. I leave just after 5AM and do not get home until a little after 8PM. There is no time to mix and prepare for a large number of dogs (and I understand the idea of less dogs makes sense, but we know how that goes) after 8PM. It would be near 10PM before I ate and then back up again before 5AM. So time is a huge issue for a lot of people. It is not a matter of being lazy (in some cases, yes, but not all). When I go on my four and five day stretches I have to pre-mix and prepare for all the dogs.

Feeding RAW is much more difficult time and effort wise than feeding from a bag. If the dogs were my livelihood and I had 6-8-10 hours a day, every day to devote to the dogs then I could see the point where there would be no excuse not to feed raw. The benefits are over whelming in comparison. Factor in a 12 hour shift with an hour commute and there is just not enough hours in the day. I feed RAW but I take a day to pre-mix the eggs/vegetable pulp/oils/rice. I mix it in a five gallon bucket. I make one pass with this out of the bucket and then another pass with the quarters or meats for that day. I have it down to a science without a wasted step.

If I did not have the days off in between, and my time off was at night and only two weekend days I would either have to go kibble and RAW, or get rid of a bunch of dogs. But again, the dogs are not my livelihood. EWO

Another excellent post, EWO, proving "where there's a will, there's a way."

Yes, if a person has a number of dogs, then getting a deep freezer is a mandatory part of the job. I did it; you did it; people who feed raw have to do it.
Yes, if a person is a full-time dogman, he will have an easier time feeding a group of dogs raw than if not.
But, yes again, if a person works a number of hours in a week, he can still make it his business to set aside at least a couple hours a week to prepare the food for his dogs, wrap it all up and get it ready for the week, and still effectively meet his dogs' needs. Absolutely.

Again, where there's a will, there's a way. There absolutely is. Everytime.

Thus, in the end, a person who says, "I don't have the time to feed raw," is just lying to himself.

The truth is, said person chooses not to MAKE the time necessary to get it done

Jack

[luvmybulldogs]

I personally like the way im doing things and it works for me. everybody has their own opinions and that's fine... I gave the OP my opinion and im not gonna switch what im doing simply because others dont like it or believe another way is better. ive seen raw fed hounds on the short end of the stick same as kibble fed hounds. There is a big difference in being lazy and strapped for time. your way works for you, my way works for me... The better hound takes the ribbon majority of the time, not the best fed hound