Redboy / jocko has made more dead game dogs !

[EWO]

Agree with it going back to the actual blood upon the sale/changing of hands. But there are changes there as well, and although it is still Jeep or Red Boy or Poncho, the original breeder/creator/perpetrator of the line is not making the calls. Back to this topic, I doubt all the RBJ dogs made the most dead game dogs (although it is a way cool statement, would have been a great advertising line in the journal way back when....) but a certain group/strand made their share. When that certain group/strand/strain were sold they were still RBJ dogs just not the same RBJ dogs.

Just the other day there was a kid on here that was beaten up and had his lunch money taken because he posted a photograph of a dog that did not look the way that the creator/perpetrator/breeder intended. That dogs blood line did not change because she was fat. Still the same pedigree/same family/same strain. The only difference is two entirely different ideas of what a brood dog should look like. Lets say we were not breeding this particular dog and the new owner and previous owner had differing ideas on calling weights or means of conditioning that same dog is the same dog but not the same dog....if that makes sense.

Great series of posts. I did not have a proverbial 'dog in the fight' but it has been a good read. EWO

Yes and no.

Yes, things absolutely change when a new owner starts selecting for his own individual preferences (competent or incompetent) within a line ...

But no, if they still go back to RBJ (or Jeep, or whatever), they're still RBJ (Jeep, etc.) dogs.

Jack

PS: That is also the SIGN of competence is when a breeder is focusing on NEW DOGS within the line. For example, if I still am trying to sell my dogs as "Bolio dogs" then I am an imbecile who apparently hasn't been able to breed MY OWN good dogs within the strain ... I am still looking back over my shoulder 40 years ago for a dead dog in order to have something good to say about what I have now. By contrast, even if my dogs have Bolio "in them" ... I should be able to point to dogs NOW, on my yard TODAY, that are defining themselves and worth talking about (e.g., Silverback dogs or some live, or only recently-dead, dog that I am focusing on NOW). So to me, when someone can only say my dogs are "Jeep dog" (rather than, say, SlimShady dogs--dogs that are good now), I automatically know that I am looking at a guy who's not feeding/breeding anything worth talking about on his own yard.

[waccamaw]

Have you ever heard anybody say I need some bolio for gamnes ,? No ,people have always said I need some redboy for heart (gameness ) and jocko for the mouth.

[Officially Retired]

Have you ever heard anybody say I need some bolio for gamnes ,? No ,people have always said I need some redboy for heart (gameness ) and jocko for the mouth.

Yes, Tom Garner used to place on his ads directly, that he added Bolio because "they could dance all night."

Sonny, you're just in Redboy country, and all your neighbors have that stuff.

I have lived in California, Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida (that's coast-to-coast) ... and have "done dogs" with top dogmen from all these areas.
You might not believe this, but Redboy is not the only answer for gameness. It is not even the best answer. In fact, in some areas of N. Cali, no one even uses it.

I urge you to go back to the first comments I've made about the Redboy stock, as to what Robinson said about the Hollingsworth dogs being gamer than his Redboy dogs, and how they've steadfastly quit to my dogs, 11 out of 12 times. And the two times the pure Hollingsworth dogs got matched into RBJ dogs, both matches went over 2 hrs, and in both cases the pure RBJ dogs quit to the pure Hollingsworth.

The truth is MORE people add Bolio dogs for gameness ... because Bolio dogs (the RIGHT Bolio dogs) add gameness AND speed AND brains to dogs ... not just "stupid gameness" ... which is why they've been added to Eli/Chinaman and many other dogs.

Again, you're just in Redboy country, Sonny. The world is A LOT bigger place than just South Carolina

All over the Wild West, Bolio dogs have been kicking ass and winning more matches than Red Boy dogs ... from California, to Oklahoma, to Texas, Louisianna, etc. ... there's a lot more Bolio crosses out there than Redboy ... not to mention most of the best Redboy crosses have Buck/Hollingsworth dogs in them

Jack

[waccamaw]

Yes, Tom Garner used to place on his ads directly, that he added Bolio because "they could dance all night."

Sonny, you're just in Redboy country, and all your neighbors have that stuff.

I have lived in California, Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida (that's coast-to-coast) ... and have "done dogs" with top dogmen from all these areas.
You might not believe this, but Redboy is not the only answer for gameness. It is not even the best answer. In fact, in some areas of N. Cali, no one even uses it.

I urge you to go back to the first comments I've made about the Redboy stock, as to what Robinson said about the Hollingsworth dogs being gamer than his Redboy dogs, and how they've steadfastly quit to my dogs, 11 out of 12 times. And the two times the pure Hollingsworth dogs got matched into RBJ dogs, both matches went over 2 hrs, and in both cases the pure RBJ dogs quit to the pure Hollingsworth.

The truth is MORE people add Bolio dogs for gameness ... because Bolio dogs (the RIGHT Bolio dogs) add gameness AND speed AND brains to dogs ... not just "stupid gameness" ... which is why they've been added to Eli/Chinaman and many other dogs.

Again, you're just in Redboy country, Sonny. The world is A LOT bigger place than just South Carolina

All over the Wild West, Bolio dogs have been kicking ass and winning more matches than Red Boy dogs ... from California, to Oklahoma, to Texas, Louisianna, etc. ... there's a lot more Bolio crosses out there than Redboy ... not to mention most of the best Redboy crosses have Buck/Hollingsworth dogs in them

Jack

Dance all night is not the same as gameness .jack I have hunted in more states than sc ,nd hunted brother .and I can ride 30 min and be in (Buck) country .i have made many of them run out of the woods when on a big boar .even hunted with a lot of fella from the mountains of ga .that hunted with jeep ,jeep rascal .jrrbj,heck it made no diff.it all ended the same most of the time ,the only real diff I see is the men behind each group of hunters .by the way jack I have been on the west coast ,San Diego ,and Portland or.beaverton or ,and tiger or ..we even used to get fogs from nettleton miss.eli dogs at that .

[waccamaw]

Jack just because you say so doesn't mean it is so,I have had jeep dogs ,Eli dogs and just about everything else ,but none could hunt like a well bred RBJ dog.that is what works for me ,but everybody has their flavor of catch dogs .

[Officially Retired]

Dance all night is not the same as gameness .jack I have hunted in more states than sc ,nd hunted brother .and I can ride 30 min and be in (Buck) country .i have made many of them run out of the woods when on a big boar .even hunted with a lot of fella from the mountains of ga .that hunted with jeep ,jeep rascal .jrrbj,heck it made no diff.it all ended the same most of the time ,the only real diff I see is the men behind each group of hunters .by the way jack I have been on the west coast ,San Diego ,and Portland or.beaverton or ,and tiger or ..we even used to get fogs from nettleton miss.eli dogs at that .

Dance all night is better than stupid game

I know you've hunted in a few other states, but I've LIVED in CA for 35 years ... LIVED in TN for 7 years ... LIVED in FL for 7 years ... and seen "the flavors" of different states ... and they're not all Red Boy ... and not everyone looks to it for gameness.

Ability-wise, can you even name a single RBJ dog, that's won more than 6 fights, that doesn't have Buck or Hollingsworth blood in it?
I can name MULTIPLE 7, 8, and even three 9xWs with Bolio blood in there ... not to mention absolute truckloads of 5xWs and 6xWs.

As far as pure gameness goes, for quite a long time the longest bitch win in pit bull history was a pure Bolio bitch, Hobbs' Tuffy. And even the current bitch from Big Apple has some in there.

Believe me, Bolio/Tombstone dogs are known for gameness (at least to anyone with any dog knowledge). And, like I said, not just stupid-gameness ... but gameness with brains ... and usually speed ... that keeps trying until they figure out a way to win, even if they're physically overmatched. That is FAR preferable to just a stupid dog that keeps trying to scratch.

Jack just because you say so doesn't mean it is so,I have had jeep dogs ,Eli dogs and just about everything else ,but none could hunt like a well bred RBJ dog.that is what works for me ,but everybody has their flavor of catch dogs .

Well, if you've had other dogs, great. Won't say otherwise.

As for all these other dogs you've beat, without names and pedigrees (like I put up there), it's hard to have a discussion.
But I am sure you're satisfied with what you have, as you've stayed with it for a long time, so credit to you for that. Very few people do that nowadays.

I have the same feeling. The truth is, both lines have been fabulous over the years.

Jack

[FrostyPaws]

I can't say I've ever heard anyone say they need Jocko for mouth personally. I've heard a ton of people say they need Redboy for gameness, but the dogs they breed to aren't noted for anything except seeing about 20 minutes and being Redboy bred. They've not been anywhere near Gameness Avenue. Whatever kind of gameness Redboy dogs were noted for originally has steadfastly declined due to the popularity of the line and indiscriminate breeding, but I've said that already.

I've seen pockets of game Eli dogs. It's like anything else. You can't simply breed to Redboy dogs and get game dogs anymore than you can breed to Bolio dogs and get world class athletes. If it were that easy, someone would breed Bolio/Redboy dogs and take over the world!

[waccamaw]

Well I don't know anything about matching dogs ,I only hog hunt with mine.

[Officially Retired]

I've seen pockets of game Eli dogs. It's like anything else. You can't simply breed to Redboy dogs and get game dogs anymore than you can breed to Bolio dogs and get world class athletes. If it were that easy, someone would breed Bolio/Redboy dogs and take over the world!

That's true.

I think most Bolio dogs are curs nowadays, that have lost the original talent the line was known for also.

I don't think Patrick had any "standards" for the last 25+ years, as dogs directly from Pat's yard into mine are 0-5 against Poncho dogs, with only 1 Patrick-type Bolio individual showing game.

That lone individual that showed game still couldn't make it to the hour mark with Tulipa even though she was bigger.

I think THE RIGHT Bolio dogs are simply the best dogs in the world pound-for-pound ... but not too many people know what that means.

Jack

[swampdawg]

Frosty trust me when I say redboyjocko blood is still alive.You dont know the right people that still run the blood.They can compete at any level but most have gone underground because of the times we live in today.