Originally Posted by waccamaw
@Wacc some of my all time favorites had redboy jocko in them which were butkus dog that had bolio in them as well. My female now has Sabre and Big john in her line, so far she's a keeper. I think both of you guys have a great deal of knowledge about the breed being as successful as you 2 are. I hope to soon owe a pup or breed to(rattler) in the future. They'll always be differences that's why we have different bloodlines...jmo
Take it slow ,that is a good cross .
Here is my input on this beat to death subject. BOTH lines are a great line of dogs. The Bolio-Tombstone blend of dogs crosses great with the Eli line for mouth establishhing a seperate line (Boyles) , and the Redboy-Jocko crossed excellent with Rascal and Honeybunch creating the HArdcore Kennels dogs. Here is my opinion, The best Hollingsworth dog ever as a performer was Gr.Ch.Mayday. he was simply a beast. traveled from Puerto Rico to New York City to South Carolina beating the likes of the Gator Boys, Tant, and Soulman. He was indeed a killing machine. With all respect to Waccamaw, If Big John was as good as Mayday, he certainly didn't travel and beat those big name kennels. That being said....Mayday was half Redboy-Jocko! Indeed he was a Hollingsworth dog, bred by Mr.Hollingsworth himself. That begs the question of ,"If the Hollingsworth line had all it needed, why did he breed to Yellow. In addition to that what other Hollingswoth bitch bred to any dog produced three champions in the same litter?" Its a good question. What I am getting at is that Yellow added value, and Mr.Hollingsworth knew it somehow, and the bulldog world is glad he did. As it pertains to Gameness, I've said before ..both dogs bring it, but I think it's a different kind of gameness. My opinion is that the Bolio-Tombstone dogs are deadgame because of thier stubborness in face of defeat, because of their will and mindset not to lose or be defeated. The Bolio-Tombstone dogs are stubborn sons of bitches. You're not going to make one do anything they dont want to. Their coats are finicky and they are LOUD! Lets just say that the neighbors won't appreciate Gr.Ch.Buck living next door.
The Redboy-Jocko dogs are equally as game, but in "my opinion" it's cause they are just to stupid to quit. It's like a switch flips and they will keep on coming no matter what. Like a chicken with it's head held to the ground. Add to that that my experience with Redboy-Jocko dogs is that they are destructive high strung dogs that will run the chain until they die, destroy their doghouses, uproot tree roots.
Frankly, because of that , If I had to pick one or the other it would be the Hollingsworth line. Smarts trumps Retards. Thank goodness.. I dont have to pick one. Almost all my dogs are half of both. That being said, I own two pure Bolio-Tombstone dogs off Ch.Red Pirate to Miss Blitz. I do not own a pure Redboy-Jocko dog. I got rid of the bitch after the breeding to Bull because she was just too destructive. Even managed to destroy and eat some of a stainless steel bowl. That was the straw that broke the camels back. You guys can choose to go at it repeatedly, but there will be no winners. Gr.Ch.Yellow, Gr.Ch.Rodney, Super Gnat's Boots (4:52) Gr.Ch.john Boy, Ch.Yellowjohn, Ch. Rocko, Ch.Deadlift, and many more cement this bloodlines legacy. Crossed into the jeep or Rascal made Ch.yellowolf, Ch. Redman, Ch.Mystic, Ch. Bozak, Ch.Doogie, Ch.judy, and many more.
The Bolio-Tombstone line has a thousand dogs on it's own including Gr.Ch.buck (ROM) and a thousand Boyles winners. The Boyleslineis Hank x Redbaby. Redbaby is a Bolio dog and they used Bobby Jr. heavily. I dont care about west coast or east coast. to me, that is silly. There are many dogmen on the East Coast like STP and Captain America , Southern Kennels, Havannah Boys, Strictly Business that have done the deed well for many years, but the West Coast has just as many if not more. I guess you can sum it up with "to each their own" It is my opinion that half redboy-jocko and half Bolio-Tombstone is better than either on their own. But thats just my opinion based on my experience. i LOVE the Hollingsworth dogs, but if given the choice to cross it with Eli or Redboy-Jocko, its not even a choice. I believe the Redboy-Jocko dogs are 10x gamer than the Eli dogs, and the Termite strain of Jocko do punch just as hard as an Eli dog.
I will say this, because when we did it, we traveled all over the country. YOU MAKE YOUR NAME TRAVELING AND SPANKING PEOPLE IN THIER BACKYARD. Thats how we did it. More credibility to those that do it like that hunting down the hard competition than those that stay locally. I applaud Mr.Hollingsworth's "idiot savant" decision to breed to Yellow. I love my dogs . I urge both parties of this argument to take the high road and show leadership given our audience.
Best topic ever!!!!!
+1000 I agree and love both lines. I like the two blended together. That's what I decided to do was take the high road rather than hurl disrespect back and forth . Everybody has skeletons in their closet even people who think they don't.
I agree 110% with what you said and I believe I'm now the one feeding that pure RBJ dog you were speaking of and she is deffinately a hard keeper lmao. I've also just started messing with the bolio stuff and that finicky skin is no joke. That pup off machobuck x blondy is starting to straighten out in the front end I think he's gonna be alright I'll keep you posted. Keep up the good work and hopefully we can get sassy back to you to do that breeding.
Creek Bottom
I use to own Sassy's mom Ginger. I sold her to the guy that bred Sassy. Ginger was an easy keeper not much trouble at all.
Huh? Wow, you make up pure BS.
Verified by Andy Lewis? Are you kidding me?
Andy was the one who told me that bitch he got from you was "a straight killer" ... and it proved to be nothing but pure, made-up, childlike, wanna-be bullshit.
She's the bitch who couldn't see the better side of 5 minutes with two smaller bitches. It was clear she had never been rolled once and had ZERO pit savvy.
Andy actually flipped out and shit himself when my Pantera decimated his bitch. Andy actually asked for a handle ... against my puppy... and I refused.
Then he started screaming, "I want a handle, Goddamnit!!" ... over what a 10 month old puppy was doing to his 1-lb bigger bitch
And you seek "verification" from a chump like that
I told Andy he could pick his POS up any time he wanted, but no way in hell was I going to give his bigger, older bitch "a break" from my puppy
Sonny, the only time you "showed up" was to roll your 8 lb bigger dog into my smaller one, so don't act like you came over as a collector or that I didn't know you'd be there.
Your skinny ass has never been anything but respectful when I have been right there in front of you, so don't act like you're a thug. Take a gander in the mirror
You know, I have had just about enough of your bullshit. You're a stupid man with some so-so dogs, and you're a GD liar. Everything you have said on here is pure BS.
You want to talk about bullshit, the fact is you stole Little Jack from Trad.
Little Jack won twice, beat a Champion the first time, then won in 1:58 over some Ch Paladin dog Jacobs has (I think).
Then Trad entrusted the dog to you to breed to (you're wanting more of my blood) ... and you claimed he "got stolen."
I mean, I could go on and on with all of the BS you're full of.
In fact, let's start with the quality of Ch Big John's "wins."
Why don't you explain to your lemmings that one of the "wins" was into your cousin (to whom you gave a discard dog)?
Tell everyone how you gave away a discard dog to a relative, and then you turned around and matched into it with Big John
What did it go, 5 minutes? And you call that a win?
That's some quality of opposition, Sonny
Hell, I could go on and on with your southern-bred bullshit, but that's enough for now.
LOL, okay, whatever, Sassy quit in 2 minutes, whatever lie you want to tell.
I have seen fifty minutes out of a prime Sassy, and there is no way in hell any bitch on earth, her size, could put a dent in that powerhouse dog in an hour, let alone 2 minutes.
Now I can't say what Sassy did over there, but here are the 3 things I distinctly remember about Sassy and her being over there:
1) That she decimated 2 bitches of yours on the face, in fact so badly did she decimate your bitches, that you actually told Weapons of Mass Destruction (EverLast) that you were thinking of running Sassy on a mill, to get her tired enough first, so that she would be "reachable" by your slow, stupid bitches ... since your back-end dogs are tailor-made for my face dogs.
2) The other thing I remember about Sassy was that imbecile cousin of yours, Rivertown Dave, had Sassy and bred her to Yellow John. This idiot leaves Sassy on the chain until the day she's due. Then he comes home late at night and tosses Sassy in the brood pen the very night she's supposed to drop. After she gets tossed into the brood pen, Sassy starts barking and barking all night ... and Dave comes out there and beats the living shit out of her and goes back inside. Sassy starts barking incessantly ... again and again ... and this fucking idiot goes out there and beats the shit out of her again and again ... all night long until the morning time. Well, guess what? It turns out SASSY HAD 2 OF HER PUPS IN THE DIRT THAT NIGHT ... before your fucking idiot cousin came home ... and THAT is why she was barking and barking all night ... SHE WAS SEPARATED FROM HER BABIES AND WANTED TO BE WITH THEM ... and this fucking asshole beats her all night long, over her natural motherly instincts, because he's too stupid to consider this as a possiblity
3) After I got Sassy back, she had no muscle tone, and had a chronic vaginal discharge, which required 3 weeks of Baytril to cure.
Now, as far as coffee and water goes, when I bred Screamer to Poncho, I got an all-game litter.
Not a single dog quit in the litter, not a single dog matched off their offspring ever quit.
That is a total of about 15 dogs, with at least 5 going over the 2-hour mark. That's coffee son.
By contrast, when I bred Screamer to Ch Big John, I got 4 curs (2 rank) and 3 game dogs.
Dr Death quit in :12 to Poncho Jr. male (a 9-10 game litter).
Anthrax quit to his half-brother Duke Nukem in :19
Little Big John quit in 1:30 ... which was at least respectable.
Siren Girl beat a 1xW and then a 4xW, and then quit in an hour, which again was respectable
But that's still 4 CURS sonny ... one of which quit to another Screamer dog, sired by Poncho.
There were ONLY 3 game dogs in that litter of 7 to Big John, Sonny (Kulu, Little Jack, and Wichita).
That's water, son.
Yet, when I bred those dogs BACK to Screamer dogs, I got absolute consistency, NO quits, and TWO DEADGAME wins.
So the "coffee" is coming from my dogs ... which is why your dogs are what I immediately got rid of and away from.
More of my blood = higher gameness/win percentage = more coffee.
These are facts.
And BTW, that Siren Girl bitch (Big John x Screamer) was rolled into my Pantera bitch also (Gr Ch Sparky x Screamer), and it was a massacre.
Siren Girl didn't quit on that, and she was a pretty fast and good bitch, but Pantera was a fucken brute, and Siren Girl just did not have the power to deal with her and had to be picked up.
I never needed an outcross, what I needed was SIZE ...
And look man, Pretty Boy's gameness was seen in front of TONS of good dogmen, so just shut up on that, okay?
I can put up with debates and arguments, but will NOT put up with straight lies.
The dog was a bum ... I have always said that ... but he damned sure was no cur.
Yeah, okay, you got me on ONE point on ONE discussion. LAST YEAR.
I can stand to be wrong, Sonny. I mean, if you recall, I admitted I was wrong there, I conceded JR didn't go into Buck, and I stopped debating.
I didn't call you names. I didn't change the subject. I didn't go on and on about other matters (like you here). When the facts came out, and JR didn't go into Buck, I just said I was wrong. Why don't you have that kind of class?
YOU'RE the imbecile who can't admit you're wrong here. Because you ARE just WRONG that RBJ dogs are "the baddest" ... or that they have "the most kills" ... THEY DON'T.
Yes, I am talking about dog fights as well as matters that happened over 12 years ago, when Victor came onto the board and ran you up a tree. So Big John was 9 or 10 and no teeth, well so was Mayday, retard! As with the 9 year old Haunch, Victor was ready to match his old Mayday dog into your old Big John dog, and you shit yourself and refused. Gr Ch Zukill, a legitimately badass dog, killed 6 win a row with no teeth, why couldn't Big John, if he was as bad as you say he was? Were you afraid he didn't have the gameness of Mayday? Victor was confident in his dog, and said he could come to your back yard! You were running your mouth about Big John "killing" Mayday every day on my forum ... and then suddenly you got your chance ... IN YOUR OWN BACK YARD ... What went wrong, Sonny?
I am a good talker, writer, breeder, and authority on dogs. You are an uneducated redneck, who's not good for much besides hunting in the woods and talking about RBJ dogs.
I know more about dogs than you will ever touch, so let's just leave it at that.
He lost game in 1:10 to a Champion, that is not something to be embarrassed about.
He also got his ass kicked by EVERY dog on my yard (Icon, U-Nhan-Rha, etc.), but he never committed a turn in his life.
Actually, you're the one breaking the rules. The rules are to keep things civil and not directly insult others.
The subject was RBJ dogs, and you made the claim that they "killed the most" and "all the good ones" were RBJ dogs.
I tried to stay on topic and directly challenged these outrageous remarks with FACTS ... with DOG NAMES ... with ACTUAL MATCHES where the best RBJ dogs GOT WHIPPED by Hollingsworth dogs, Jeep dogs, Eli/Carver dogs, etc.
You are the one who came here and called me a "liar" and a "fool."
But you're right on one thing: this is turning into a PedOnline shit-fest, and it's probably better to STICK TO THE TOPIC ... so why don't you try doing that FOR A CHANGE Sonny?
I have asked you to name THE BADDEST, MULTI-KILLINGEST dogs in history ... and asked you to tell me how many of them were RBJ in nature.
Please don't tell me about anything other than ACTUAL DOGS.
Please don't have one of your icustomers come on here and tell me their dogs are "doing well for themselves," as if that has the first flippin' thing to do with ACTUAL MATCHES or THE BADDEST dogs ever.
This database has nearly 40,000 dogs in it now. Of all kinds of different bloodlines. So how to prove who-is-what is really rather simple
Simply go to the Search Engine and plug-in 5xWs only. You'll see several RBJ dogs but DOZENS MORE ELI/CARVER DOGS.
But then raise the bar to 6xW ... then 7xW ... then 8xW ... and guess what? NOTHING.
With every "upgrade," the RBJ dogs disappear.
But you will still see a bunch of Eli, Eli/Carver, and Jeep/Rascal dogs ... so what do you think that means, Sonny?
It means that you don't know what you're talking about. It means your original claims are wrong.
(BTW: I also don't see any of yours past 3 wins ... but there are a boatload of mine)
Speaking of coffee, why don't you wake up and smell some, Sonny?:
Eli/Carver crosses are the winningest, and the baddest dogs on earth. Not RBJ.
This is a matter of FACT, not "opinion." I was just trying to correct you, not get into an insult-fest.
So unless you have FACTS to the contrary, admit YOU WERE WRONG ... and sit down and shut up.
There is nothing to debate; there is no reason to insult each other any further.
Jack
if I was a MOD I would have locked this thread b4 it turned this ugly...smh
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