STUD DOGS????

[Acesaun]

What qualifies a dog to be a stud dog? As I look at some of these stud dogs that are being put up for stud I see that they either don't have offsprings, they've been breed a million time and you never hear anything about the offsprings and when you inquire about them you get hit with the line that they didn't work out because of what he was breed too:shocked. Now I've never had a stud dog and when I do get to that point I want to know for a fact what my stud is throwing I don't want to just stud him out because he's inbred,or from a known breeder,or because some old head said it's some old blood, shit a lot of old blood didn't work!!!

[evolutionkennels]

A dog with a dick and at least one nut with a good semen count who is willing to mount your bitch and copulate until he ties up your bitch and injects some of that said semen into your bitch that has hopefully ovulated thereby impregnating your bitch can be considered a stud dog, whether he is a dalmatian or a poodle. Now , whether or not he is producing show quality dogs is an altogether different question.

Keep in mind, in this day and age, the laws being what they are, NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT FUCKING MIND is going to tell you details about a felony. Especially if you are "new" or don't have any accomplishments.

Example, if STP, Size Up, Havana Boys, Jack, or any other well known and experienced dogman calls me and asks for details, I'll give them details. But anyone else, THAT I DO NOT KNOW, THAT COULD BE HSUS, ASPCA ,PETA, or worse the Executive department of our system? ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD GIVE DETAILS TO A STRANGER WHO MORE THAN LIKELY IS A DEADBEAT ANYWAY THAT IS WASTING HIS NOT SO PRECIOUS TIME. Would you risk your freedom for potential stud fee? Hell no, so keep that in mind before you get all upset because someone doesn't want to give you details, ITS A DIFFERENT WORLD. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, If hes producing well, you'll know it. If YOU like the dog, BREED TO IT, if NOT, breed your own.

[Acesaun]

Don't make me crack my knuckles, when some idiot calls me and asks me what my dogs did in thier last hunt, I just hang up. That's not the questions people ask. And probably not what you are referring too. It's a slippery slope, you say he throws finish, you'll ask where.. And so forth. Anything posted on here is heresay, but if someone ask you a direct question about YOUR stud, and that happens to be someone building a case, let's just say it's better to tell that person to go fuck themselves.

I totally agree!!! But I would hope know one is dumb enough to answer the question in an incriminating way, That's why I ask for opinions not for someone to give me their actual experience and if I have to ask for more in-depth detail I don't necessarily need the stud...

[Officially Retired]

I totally agree!!! But I would hope know one is dumb enough to answer the question in an incriminating way, That's why I ask for opinions not for someone to give me their actual experience and if I have to ask for more in-depth detail I don't necessarily need the stud...

It works both ways:

If the owner of the stud has never heard of the guy who's calling him asking questions ... then the stud owner doesn't need the customer.

The truth is, if any guy is at the stage of the game where he's still wondering, "What qualifies a dog to be a stud?", then he's probably not yet reached the level where he's breeding anything worth talking about in his own right ...

Typically, guys who are repeatedly and consistently breeding winners, and top-shelf dogs, automatically trust the judgement of other dogmen who themselves are repeatedly and consistently breeding winners ... precisely because of the very fact they're able to do this.

By contrast, it is typically only green blowhards, who haven't yet mastered anything, who "can't believe" and who "doubt everything" ... precisely because they themselves can't yet make anything work

Jack

[BRIGHT25KNLS]

Why is that some people just don't get it when it comes to these dogs I think one should have enough common sense and learn to READ BETWEEN THE LINES in convoy when inquiring about a stud and find out the pros and cons of the kennel who owns the stud in which you inquire with all these social media you will hear the bad and good or better yet ask real dog men around your area about the TRAITS OF WHICH THAT LINE IS KNOWN FOR . BREEDING THESE DOGS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE MAKE THIS SO HARD TO REALIZE EVERY PUP OR BREEDING DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PERCENTAGE NOT JUST THE NAME!

[Officially Retired]

What qualifies a dog to be a stud dog? As I look at some of these stud dogs that are being put up for stud I see that they either don't have offsprings, they've been breed a million time and you never hear anything about the offsprings and when you inquire about them you get hit with the line that they didn't work out because of what he was breed too:shocked. Now I've never had a stud dog and when I do get to that point I want to know for a fact what my stud is throwing I don't want to just stud him out because he's inbred,or from a known breeder,or because some old head said it's some old blood, shit a lot of old blood didn't work!!!

I will try to answer the original question with a one-liner, since nobody seems to like to read more than a paragraph these days.

Unfortunately, true knowledge takes more than "one line" of text to be gained, and more than 1 year of experience to be understood, but I will do the best I can in one line for the impatient:

"What qualifies a dog as 'a stud dog' is its genetic likelihood to produce dogs capable of winning consistently in open competition."

That likelihood can be either proven, by what it's produced already, or theoretical, by what a knowledgeable dogman can reasonably expect of the dog's pups, based on accurate assessment of said dog's genetic background, as well as the animal's own athletic/mental strengths/weaknesses as an individual.

That is as short & sweet as I can make it ... for those who don't like to read much ... but the truth is all of what I said is FILLED with implications/material that could be opened-up and discussed for pages-worth

Jack

[evolutionkennels]

I totally agree!!! But I would hope know one is dumb enough to answer the question in an incriminating way, That's why I ask for opinions not for someone to give me their actual experience and if I have to ask for more in-depth detail I don't necessarily need the stud...

I always found it hilarious when people call you about your stud, to ask questions. In all my years, I have never in my life called someone to breed to their dog, and them ask them to sell me on it. I either want to breed to thier dog or not. Period. And if I call, it's because I've already done my research, and I think it will go good with my stock, or for whatever reason, all I want to know is how much and where. Period.

[Acesaun]

Smart of you to delete that last one ... I deleted my response too.

My best short answer is above; my best long answer is in the article to which I already referred.

Jack

Thanks I just never took the initiative to read it this forum has so much going on I'm still figuring it out..

[Officially Retired]

Thanks I just never took the initiative to read it this forum has so much going on I'm still figuring it out..

Understandable ... there really are a lot of good articles in here, if you take the time to look around.

The forum can be a fun place, but there are a lot of meat & potatoes elsewhere (videos/articles).

There are also dialogue boxes under each article to where specific questions can be asked (or specific disagreements started).

It's frustrating to want to cram all the knowledge into your head at once ... or to want to "reach conclusions" without putting in the work to make good decisions.

As the saying goes, "I don't want the labor pains, I just want the baby."

We've all been there. We've all "repeated what we've heard."

True knowledge simply takes time and it simply takes effort. There is no other way to get it.

The truth is, "good" and "great" dogs come in many different sizes, shapes, breedings, styles, percentages, etc.

The key is to develop an eye, to neither expect too much from any dog, nor too little, but to have a REASONABLE (and accurate) estimation of what "consistently-good" means ... performance-wise and consistency-wise as to a dog's ability to produce the former.

All of this is words, though.
Words are the only way to communicate, but ONLY if you "relate" to (feel/understand) the words will you actually have knowledge.
So be careful when you say you "don't want to relate," because in fact you SHOULD want to relate to people who are truly knowledgeable

Ultimately, if you latch onto something good, stick with it and refine it to your liking, you won't need words anymore. And you won't need anyone else's studs either.

You will just be able to look out at your own yard, know where the best ones are, know what will go with what, and be satisfied with what you have.
But again, this takes time

When you're starting out though, you do need to ask questions. I agree with what Evo says about doing homework prior. However, sometimes you might call a breeder with (say) 60 dogs of a given bloodline ... and you might not be familiar with all that he has on his yard. Nor how everything's bred. Sometimes you gotta ask certain questions to get certain answers.

It can put a breeder on the defensive if you're too "exact" in what you're talking about, if he doesn't know you.
I found out a lot about the Bolio bloodline by asking Patrick a thousand questions over a lot of years.
And I found out a lot more by rolling a lot of dogs from that bloodline over a lot of years also ... I can promise you I didn't gain it all over night.

People who are into my dogs found out a lot about my dogs by asking me a thousand questions over a lot of years and by looking at a lot of my dogs.
That's what you gotta do to learn; you can't just "get knowledge" from a post or two. You have to put in the time, and you have to put in the work.

Breeders have to take care of themselves, and yet be understanding also. It's a hard row to hoe for both ... and personally I am glad I no longer have to worry about it ... though I also miss hearing the excitement in a customer's voice when one of his from me whipped some "big name" in their area and put them on the map

One thing I can tell you is decide what you like, style-wise, and then do your homework as to what produces it consistently (bloodline-wise).
Then try to buy dogs of that bloodline until you get a solid facsimile of what you want.
Once you do, once you get a key individual or two that is (and produces) what you want ... breed your own off of those dogs at that point ... follow the proven breeding patterns outlined in my article ... and as long as your dogs fall in line with what you want, and win more than they lose, keep doing what you're doing.

Jack

[brokeback]

^^^ Good post.