The Lemm Keep

[Officially Retired]

Oh man, I just wrote a in depth article on a cable set up that combines the workout of a weight pull, flirt pole and the spring pole with use of a weighted collar if one choses to. Lost my internet connection and lost the info ...

Public Service Announcement

Heads up everyone:

CYJ, I am sorry you lost everything in your detailed post, but you did NOT have to start all over again.

Our ultra-cool forum here automatically saves what you do ... so that, if you do lose your connection (power failure, whatever), you can come back and finish what you started.

Check out this quick video I did to show you how:

Take 2 minutes to watch this, as it will DEFINITELY help everyone here to know at some point ...

All right fellas, back to dogs

Jack

[WHISPERS]

Whispers, what we sometimes call a Jenny is really the Cat mill. Believe it was Carver that hung the name swinging jenny on the cat mill. Regardless the cat mill or swinging jenny is powered by the dog running on the ground after a live bait in a cage or more preferably a animal hide etc.

The Horse Jenny that most Horse persons use have over head arms to attaché the horse leads to. Apparatus is powered by a electric motor. Usually designed to walk more than one horse at a steady horse walking pace.

Your friend may be a right on person. But would not expose my dogs to maybe his friends. Met very few horse lovers that liked dog men that owned any type of sporting dogs. The Humane Society and Peta are always just one phone call away.

You can do better with that type of mill work out with a electric tread mill inside of a building. Cheers

The old man still got dogs down from a dog I cant quite remember at the moment. He does some pretty decent ear cropping too. I doubt he'd be the one to make tht call based off the cropping methods he uses, tho. I just wondered uf tht jenny would b safe to use with the dogs as I'd like to gain some experience with as much as I can in conditioning dogs. I gotta try it at least one time or two to see how I feel about it for myself.

Back to the Lemm keep, tho. Does anyone else feel like the 15min sessions might be too light? My reasoning behind my feeling tht its too light is because I feel like im seeing the dogs starting to get hot and slowing down around 20min or so. The first time I tweaked it way up. The dog worked very hard and never caught a bad recovery till it hit 55min sessions. Also we stayed at 3 sets. She came out lookin great and performed just as good as she looked but we lost her in aftercare. Being that she dominated in the hunt, I figured she must have been over worked and could have had kidney failure so I tweaked it back down to twenty min sessions after that. Again.. I dont claim to b expert as I am still a student. Id like to know any opinions on tht part of her keep and the way it was tweaked still using the guidlines of the Lemm keep.

[EWO]

I am not sure of your particular dog or your particular case but I will venture to say 15 minutes could have been light. There is no written keep that out there that can accurately say what a dog will need two Thursdays from now on the 35th day of the keep. Simply can't be done. Every dog starts from a different level of readiness. Some dogs are more fit to start by nature or chain activity while the next dog may not be as 'ready' to start. Each dog will progress at a different rates and then there is always the chance of regress which tosses the minutes for that day of a written keep, as well as the next day, right out the window.

I used the principles of the Lemm keep of work, recovery and work on a carpet mill. I did not have a goal of working to a minute count, if that makes sense. I put the dog on the carpet mill and let him go all out til he broke, walked him out til he was ready and ran him again til he broke. This would be one set. I measured the initial run, the recovery time and the second run. In time the first run increased, the recovery time decreased and the last run increased. As the times increased on the carpet mill I would move to two sets and then to three in a session. Understanding the carpet mill is a tougher run the 2nd and 3rd runs were substantially lower than the first, especially when doing other work in between.

On the mill I did not work toward a total minute time as a goal. The dog truly dictated the times by what he could do on that particular day. If the times dropped off in the initial run or the dog did not recover from set to set as well as he did yesterday, then I more than likely over worked him the day before. Another adjustment has to be made. The principles are similar but I did not use heart rates as a factor. I basically let the dog stop the stopwatch not the stopwatch stop the dog. EWO

[Nut]

Thanks Jack for the answer.

EWO( and others), what i find difficult when doing hard work and checking the dog's recovery is; you can see the dog's breath recovers to normal, but how about muscle tiredness. Most dogs need something to go all out on the mill, especially on something with more resistance. That something can cause a dog to keep going all out and ignore weaknesses. Thats what bulldogs do. (I could place one on the mill with a broken ligament, show him a rabbit and he would sprint like a greyhound). I usually find out the next day, when its to late. How do you prevent/spot overworking the muscles, you got some tips on that?

About strength condition. I know allot of people believe in it. I also know having to much/big muscle is more likely to have a negative impact in show. How do u make sure/know the resistance training isnt causing that. Is it like u cant go wrong with light resistance training and how about dogs who are genetically heavily muscled?

Sorry for the language. Hope its understandable.

[CYJ]

Thanks Jack for the info. Nut it is not a bad idea to do breaks off the various mills with hand walking. To watch how the dog recovers and note it's muscle strength. The first area of the body to weaken the fastest is the same as on a all types of full contact human fighting. It is the legs and on a dog it will be the back end. Dog is not moving naturally and starts dragging or not picking up the back legs normally. You are doing to much at the start or to much period.

For as baiting a dog if one has to. Best done early in the workout and minimally. When I used a rabbit in a cage set up in front of my Round table. Soon as the dog started running extra hard. I would cover the rabbit. Over time I seldom used the rabbit, as I wanted the dog to work at a normal steady pace on the Table are the Cat Mill. JMHO

It is best to learn how to pre keep dogs before jumping all the way into a full 60 day keep. If one is using a Carpet mill go by the Colby keep, if you are using a slat mill go by the Armitage method or Mr. Lemms. The Armitage slat mills or most mills of that day, may have had more drag. Study the keeps recommended in Ca. Jack's books.

I feel like the basic way to best feed a dog has pretty well been solved with good recommendations like in Ca. Jack's book that will take out a lot of extra work and headaches at feeding time.

To be on the safe side using any one's written keep. Do just half the times recommended as guide lines in a pre keep. A Cat Mill is another animal all to it's self and working one off a cable like I mentioned or just a flirt pole has a different approach.

Some of the best dog conditioners that had good natural talent got better by going and spending time with other known successful dog conditioners. Even J. Crenshaw has pictures of him self visiting with Don Mayfield and others. V. Jackson learned from D. Mayfield and the Florida combine dog men. Still he had to adjust all that he learned to his lifestyle, type of equipment he could use or not use. The time available to work a dog and even the basic type yearly weather we were living in.

Don Divine raised and raced thoroughbred Horses and competed in dog pulling events. Told a group of us one time. That it was easier getting a Horse ready for a Race than getting a dog ready for it's dog pulling event. Cheers

[EWO]

I agree dogs will hide injuries and soreness and most anything that could be perceived as a weakness. It is completely natural.

I like to know the dog long before the work begins. I like to see the strides and the gait when he is perfectly healthy and well rested. Once I get a feel for how that particular dog carries himself I know when something changes. Usually the gait is a give away to an injured leg, injured muscle or foot/paw. Anytime the dog favors a limb it is time to stop and figure out why. There is nothing good on the other end of working a hurt dog.

It is hard to stop the dog on that perfect point every day. It takes time and experience and doing lots of dogs. It is always best to err on the side of not enough than too much. Lots of people work the dogs like they are machines and do not realize the most important of work is rest. Without rest and recovery the work dwindles and the dog is a shell of himself in very little time.

In the beginning and after a few keeps the conditioner will learn to recognize signs. In time the dog will dictate the amounts and those amounts will be based on the dogs individual abilities on a given day. The keeps then become tailor made for the dog being worked. EWO

[realitytv]

The best surface I've seen for the jenny track is rice hulls. Spray it down with water to keep it moist and rake before using.....great for the pads