I've seen dogs fed Kibbles n' Bits, Pedigree and Ol'Roy and look as shiny and healthy as could be. Are they healthy internally? Probably not.
Feeding is a choice, and if you like Loyal Puppy Motor City good for you.
Jack does pose a very good question as far as the condition your pups are living.
Why have you come to the conclusion your pups have mange?
What you describe are dogs "appearing" healthy in spite of shitty food ... like a 5 year old who "looks normal" even with a shitty diet.Originally Posted by S_B
Check back with the "Dollar General" / "Walmart" kids when they're 40 ... and see what they look like compared to well-raised kids ... and check back with any shit-food-feeder when their dogs are 7-9 and compare how they look to optimal feeders
Gotta give your opinion the boot here.
Feeding may be a choice; but shitty feeding = shitty feeding, which (ultimately) is good for NOTHING, not "you" and not "the dog" ...
Everything I said was good, including the living conditions.
That is exactly the kind of thought process I am trying to instill
Optimal Conditions + Optimal Feed = Optimal Results
A person can skimp on as much as he wants on the left side of the equation, but they will affect the right side.
Do people who feed shit feed get good results? Sure.
Most people feed shit feed and have shit practices, and go into others who feed shit and keep their dogs like shit.
But that is not why I created this place, either to skimp or to say it's okay to skimp.
Why? Because such lazy people will invariably lose dogs they didn't need to, have MORE problems (skin/cancer/other) that could have been corrected ... and will have a real tough time beating outstanding dogmen who do everything RIGHT instead of everything wrong ...
Jack
Jack I personally wouldn't feed what I deem to be shitty feed.
Would I feed my dogs Loyal? He'll no, but it is made by one of the leading feed industries, Nutrena. It isn't the best choice in my opinion, or yours obviously.
But if a member here chooses to feed it, who are we to judge?
And I've seen an 18 year old cow dog who was fed whatever the feed store had handy when the cattlemen went to pick up grain. Who was healthy "looking". Don't think the rancher could have ever been convinced he done that dog wrong by not feeding optimally.
The dog in my box to the left was 10 years old when I snapped that pic. Fed kibble his whole life and lived on a dirt circle.
My point is, one can feed a less than stellar feed, keep pups in dirt and still raise healthy (inside and out) bulldogs.
Motor City came here for help, so before we all hop on him and assume he's guilty of committing bad practices. We should give him a chance, don't ya think?
What does being made by one of the leading feed industries mean, exactly?Jack I personally wouldn't feed what I deem to be shitty feed.
Would I feed my dogs Loyal? He'll no, but it is made by one of the leading feed industries, Nutrena. It isn't the best choice in my opinion, or yours obviously.
Nutrena is a flyspeck compared to Purina. And Purina makes some of the worst feed ever bagged and (mis)labeled "dog food" ...
Can you show me scientific literature which says dogs are supposed to eat corn, wheat, glutens, beet pulps, or any of the first 10 ingredients on that bag of food (besides chicken 'byproducts' and fat)?
Quite frankly, it is an label abomination and lie to call those ingredients "dog food."
Who am I? Really?
Well, let's see. Um, I own this GD place, I built it from the ground up, I pay the rent every month, and I busted my ass for 2 years writing "the book" on the breeding/raising these dogs, that's who
The question is, who are "you" to second-guess me on the subject? LMAO
Aside from THAT truth is the fact I am giving THE BEST advise, not saying, "Hey, it's okay to feed shit-food if you want."
That is not "advice," it is nothing.
Sorry, tip-toeing around the truth is not me and never will be me.
Citing individual exceptions is a waste of time and doesn't disprove the rule.
I know people who are "still alive," after not eating or exercising right, but that doesn't mean "the new rule" is NOT to eat well, nor does this mean you should advise other people not to eat well.
It means some people "get by" eating shit food ... but they will never excel.
Okay, but what does that have to do with anything, other than forcing me to repeat the previous response.
Being "fed kibble" and "living in a dirt circle" is simply not the optimal way to raise a dog.
You can post a hundred such photos but that will never translate to "best practice."
What I think is you should stop attempting to be the "CA Jack police," because it's a title you don't have, and actually come to grasp with the fact I WAS helping him
I was getting him to think in terms of BEST practice ... not "mediocre" practice.
Everything I said about that feed, and raising pups on dirt/grass (as opposed to above-ground pens) is 100% on the money. Period.
And I also believe I directly said this wasn't a slam on him personally, but designed to get him to THINK
Jack
Nutrena feeds the animals you buy in the supermarket to feed your bulldog Jack. And guaranteed those chickens eat corn!
No police here Jack. Yes your site your rules. Roger that, load and clear.
Cmoooooooonnnn!
I know you know better than that.
Chickens may eat corn, but that has nothing to do with dogs eating corn.
That's like saying, well deer eat acorns, saplings, and grass ... and wolves eat deer ... so I guess wolves can just "skip the deer" and eat acorns, saplings, and grass?
It's not about "rules," it's about TRUTHNo police here Jack. Yes your site your rules. Roger that, load and clear.
And the TRUTH is demodectic mange is 1 part genetics and 1 part environment.
The symptoms of demodex are the result of a weakened immune system that cannot fight-off the mange mite, like a normal healthy dog (with a good immune system) can.
And the FIRST thing that compromises the immune system of ANY animal is NOT being fed a diet it was designed to process and flourish on ... and the second thing that compromises immunity is the HEALTH AND CLEANLINESS OF THE ENVIRONMENT.
I am giving the guy (and you) PEARLS here ... make no mistake ... so it's not about "my rules" at all ... it's about my understanding of how mange outbreaks occur ... and how to prevent them at THE ROOT.
I can't correct any dog's genetics ... so the genetic heritability of mange is outside my control or any advice ...
But I also know that these other, underlying factors play a VITAL role in any dog's likelihood of coming down with the problem.
So, what I am saying (and you might want to actually listen), is before ANYone goes to soaking their dog in noxious chemicals to treat mange, they should FIRST examine what they're feeding ... and the environment ...
That is nothing but THE TRUTH ... and BEST PRACTICE ... believe it
Jack
Noxious chemicals? Really? I have used that product for many years, no deaths to report. In fact when I worked at a vets office for a while. I had a super poison ivy rash. As I'm highly allergic. Doc told me to dip some dogs...needless to say, it dried that oozing mess up!
We dipped everything that was sent in for a bath, to groom or that had fleas/ticks. Not one animal became ill.
Prolate/Lintox is a good product.
And yes the demodectic is as you described either genetic or from uncleanness.
I experienced it with the first litter I bred off of the family I have now...over 14 years ago. Those dogs were clean and well cared for. I think the stress of becoming bulldogs brought the initial onset of those symptoms then. I used the Prolate/Lintox then. cleared it up and it never returned.
No dogs since then have been clinical with the exception of one outcross pup. I suspect her immune system could have been compromised due to other reasons.
1. You're ignoring the truth of what I said.
2. I have used Amitraz for years, and never had a death either, but the product is STILL so toxic you're supposed to wear gloves and a bib.
3. You are WRONG that Prolate Lintox doesn't have any harmful effects (yeah, really):
Read this (for people who apply it): "WARNING: May be fatal if swallowed. Causes substantial but temporary eye injury. Harmful if absorbed through skin. Do not get in eyes, or on clothing. Avoid contact with skin. Wear protective eyeware (goggles, face shield, or safety glasses), long-sleeved shirt, long pants, shoes and socks, and chemical-resistant gloves (barrier laminate or viton, selection category G.)"
And this: (again, for people who apply it): "Acute exposure to phosmet may produce the following signs and symptoms: pinpoint pupils, blurred vision, headache, dizziness, muscle spasms, and profound weakness. Vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, seizures, and coma may also occur. The heart rate may decrease following oral exposure or increase following dermal exposure. Chest pain may be noted. Hypotension may occur, although hypertension is not uncommon. Dyspnea may be followed by respiratory collapse. Giddiness is common."
The net is full of research to prove the opposite of what you say (that happens to people just for being near it, or getting a little bit on them) ... so just think of what it does to the naked dogs that get this stuff applied full force (whether you realize it or not) ...
So, back to what I was saying ... BEFORE you go to dipping your dogs in NOXIOUS CHEMICALS ... try feeding them an optimal diet, and try keeping them in optimal conditions, FIRST, because this is BEST PRACTICE
Jack
(This message has been approved by The Pit Bull Bible)
I have experienced multiple cases of demodex, over going on 3 decades with the same family, and have continually had some segments of my own family that are prone to it.
In some case, I have seen it so bad I have received back several unwanted dogs with it from customers ... and taken these dogs back on the yard ... and done nothing else, except change their shit diet they were getting into the good diet I was giving ... and watched them transform in 6-8 weeks into glowing specimens of health ...
Sure, in some cases, I have had to use drugs too. But many times I never had to.
So, I know (not "think," but KNOW) that an optimal diet + optimal conditions play a HUGE part in mange prevention and effective mange treatment.
Jack
Posting Permissions
