Well said.Originally Posted by Donnybrook
Have to disagree with this.
Gameness is all about the willingness to go back and keep fighting, which is factually-expressed by the effort to do so ...
The only "opinions" that come into play have to do about speculation into the future, but whether or not a dog made is scratch is an objective fact, measured in time (10 seconds).
Jack
Obvious people have different ideas about the term game. The definition is not really important. Just be honest to yourself, cause you know best whether the dog made a good courtesy according circumstances. The term LG imo just means the dog didnt stop technically that day.
The term game is used to loosely....most who use the term have no understanding of what the true meaning is.
Willing to cross that line (continue) means just that, it does not necessarily mean that particular animal is game. A bulldog can scratch (continue) and still be a cur.
In saying that I'm not suggesting to the blowhards that you must "skull drag" to determine what gameness means. I believe this subject has always been a slippery slope. And dogs either suffer or lack being properly evaluated because of what someone else writes on a board or says out loud.
It can be equated to the talent of a truly good athlete. If you are truly good athletically it is either born to you or you are intelligent enough to gain those skills and use them to your advantage.
There are lots of excellent posts here with the exception of P601's, who simply stumbled into the wrong dogyard!
S_B
gameness to me is willing to continue with life ending no return results.... and someone with common sense was smart enough to pick up or made a choice before it was to late to pick up sometimes this is not so common as some cant swallow there pride.... as for time that doesn't determine gameness as some would assume ...
I still think there is an ongoing confusion between the FACT a dog was "picked up game" (meaning, still willing to go at the time of pick up) ... and the idea of a dog being game ... "permanently" ... under "any" circumstance.
I personally believe the latter to be of dubious likelihood.
I can think of several dogs that I can't imagine quitting, ever, under MOST fighting circumstances ... however, I also can't think of ANY dog that I couldn't "make" quit IF I wanted to stack the odds far enough against them.
Would Ozzie's Homer have scratched into Jeep ... if he had an intestinal blockage for 2 days, was septic with pus pockets in his teeth/jawbone, and was 9 years old when the contest began ... I doubt it, but who knows?
In other words, we have to picture and use normal circumstances in our judgement. We can only go on FACTS and "our gut" ... and how many game dogs we're able to come up with, over time, tends to validate (or impune) our abilities to assess what we're looking at.
Jack
PS: Always remember that many dogs that "show game" against one level of dog, all of a sudden don't show quite so game when they face another level of dog ...
picked up game literally means nothing unless u were there to witness all the factors
So what you're saying is that, every contest in the history of the game, that "you" weren't a direct witness to, "means nothing" ???
Jeep/Homer, Buck/Sandman, etc. all "mean nothing" because "you" did not personally give "your" final stamp of approval
Kind of an egomaniac, eh
If a dog is 'picked up' and is 'willing to continue' he has been picked up game. If, at that point in time, he is willing to continue he has been 'picked up game'. If the next day, next week, next month, next year he decides he is no longer willing, then at that point he is a cur.
"picked up game' (still willing) is not saying 'forever game' or 'dead game' or 'pit game' or 'deep game' or any other of the descriptive terms that sway the perception of what 'game' is. Even if one is from the school of no descriptive terms, it is 'game' or 'not game', with no varying degrees, being picked up while still willing is still game. EWO
LOLIf you don't understand, then I can't explain it any clearer.
Yes, in addition to many other things I've had to explain to you.
You're confused again. So I will explain again.
A dog CAN be picked up "game" ... willing to continue. (Happens all the time.)
What you're saying is some people MISTAKE (or misrepresent) a "game" pick up, where a dog is not willing to continue, but the owner tries to pass it off as a game pickup.
Yes, Nut, we all know that some people might misrepresent what happened, but that is a whole other issue isn't it?
For that matter, some people misrepresent pedigrees too, but that doesn't mean ALL dogs aren't really papered the way the breeder says, does it?
In the same fashion, so what, some people "say" their dog was willing to continue, when it wasn't, but that doesn't mean ALL dogs aren't willing to continue when picked up, because quite a few are.
So, again, YES, a dog CAN be picked up "game" (willing to continue), but that doesn't necessarily mean the dog wouldn't quit later on.
It only means it was picked up, and still was clearly willing to go, at the time it was picked up, nothing more, nothing less.
Please refer to my original post where trying to infer "absolute gameness" is a folly unto itself.
Thanks,
Jack
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