Ol School
Ol School
Do you have any thoughts as to why?Originally Posted by Jason
Exactly right.
No disrespect to the SDJ, but he is just one man with an opinion.
Further, I have no idea as to his actual credentials as a dogman. (Does anyone?)
Has he ever bred or showed a Champion? How long has he been in dogs? Etc., etc.
All he has done, as far as I know, is take the name of Jack Kelly's magazine ... but he does not have Jack Kelly's credentials or contacts.
I give the guy all the credit in the world for his efforts, and for the tremendous job he does in making it the nicest-looking APBT magazine I have ever seen.
But I still do not agree with a lot of his choices.
Hell, for that matter, we can take a hard look at even Jack Kelly's choices.
He was just a man with an opinion too ... a more informed opinion than most, but an opinion nonetheless.
Jack Kelly sure didn't see all these dogs go, that he voted on, he merely "talked to people on the phone," same as most.
For example, Jack Kelly refused to list European/foreign Champions, which I believe is short-sided and wrong. I understand the lack of contacts, so be it, but this is the internet and (like it or not) we are now in a global world, not an isolated one. I think it is fascinating learning about European Champions, and I wish I had more contacts for Asian Champions. I had some Philippine contacts, but one of the greatest dogs ever from my line was in Japan, and I never knew anyone who could really give me much info on him. This was more than 1.5 decades ago, and I wish I knew the internet then as I do now.
We all just "assumed" Jack Kelly was the leader at the time, and took his Dog of the Year title as gospel ... but we don't have to do so now
I have enough of my own experience now not to care about too many other opinions, and I know many of you do also.
For example, when we think of dogs like Gr Ch Titere, and what he accomplished, how did dogs like Mayday and Machobuck get DOY titles?
Sure, I love Mayday, as he came from Hollingsworth, and Machobuck is such a good-looking dog you want to just GIVE him a title ().
But in all seriousness what did they do, over and above winning 5, to warrant DOY status?
They damned sure didn't do what Titere did (beat 4xWs and 6xWs back-to-back) ... if I recall correctly both Mayday and Machobuck beat ZERO-TIME WINNERS to earn their 5th deal and Gr Ch titles. Hey, winning 5 is a great accomplishment in-and-of itself ... but is it really Dog of the Year material?
Not when compared to some of these other dogs it's not. Gr Ch DaBeast beat Ch Glock and Gr Ch Bo Duke (5xW) to earn DOY status ... so how in the world does beating ZERO-TIME WINNERS qualify any dog for a DOY title?
The Pit Bull Bible Online APBT Database is actually poised to be in a position to offer what NO magazine offers and that is transparency and voting.
Yall can vote, and yall can see HOW MANY votes there are
What magazine can offer that?
ZERO.
Who cares what one magazine editor has to say, when we can hear what every member here has to say?
We will be putting the matter to a vote, soon, but so far it looks like a LANDSLIDE for Titere.
Jack
PS: Still no one has anything to say about Gr Ch Hank (5xW)??
Gr Ch Titere
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Exactly right.
No disrespect to the SDJ, but he is just one man with an opinion.
Further, I have no idea as to his actual credentials as a dogman. (Does anyone?
Has he ever bred or showed a Champion? How long has he been in dogs? Etc., etc.
All he has done, as far as I know, is take the name of Jack Kelly's magazine ... but he does not have Jack Kelly's credentials or contacts.
I give the guy all the credit in the world for his efforts, and for the tremendous job he does in making it the nicest-looking APBT magazine I have ever seen.
But I still do not agree with a lot of his choices.
Hell, for that matter, we can take a hard look at even Jack Kelly's choices.
He was just a man with an opinion too ... a more informed opinion than most, but an opinion nonetheless.
Jack Kelly sure didn't see all these dogs go, that he voted on, he merely "talked to people on the phone," same as most.
For example, Jack Kelly refused to list European/foreign Champions, which I believe is short-sided and wrong. I understand the lack of contacts, so be it, but this is the internet and (like it or not) we are now in a global world, not an isolated one. I think it is fascinating learning about European Champions, and I wish I had more contacts for Asian Champions. I had some Philippine contacts, but one of the greatest dogs ever from my line was in Japan, and I never knew anyone who could really give me much info on him. This was more than 1.5 decades ago, and I wish I knew the internet then as I do now.
We all just "assumed" Jack Kelly was the leader at the time, and took his Dog of the Year title as gospel ... but we don't have to do so now
I have enough of my own experience now not to care about too many other opinions, and I know many of you do also.
For example, when we think of dogs like Gr Ch Titere, and what he accomplished, how did dogs like Mayday and Machobuck get DOY titles?
Sure, I love Mayday, as he came from Hollingsworth, and Machobuck is such a good-looking dog you want to just GIVE him a title (
But in all seriousness what did they do, over and above winning 5, to warrant DOY status?
They damned sure didn't do what Titere did (beat 4xWs and 6xWs back-to-back) ... if I recall correctly both Mayday and Machobuck beat ZERO-TIME WINNERS to earn their 5th deal and Gr Ch titles. Hey, winning 5 is a great accomplishment in-and-of itself ... but is it really Dog of the Year material?
Not when compared to some of these other dogs it's not. Gr Ch DaBeast beat Ch Glock and Gr Ch Bo Duke (5xW) to earn DOY status ... so how in the world does beating ZERO-TIME WINNERS qualify any dog for a DOY title?
The Pit Bull Bible Online APBT Database is actually poised to be in a position to offer what NO magazine offers and that is transparency and voting.
Yall can vote, and yall can see HOW MANY votes there are
What magazine can offer that?
ZERO.
Who cares what one magazine editor has to say, when we can hear what every member here has to say?
We will be putting the matter to a vote, soon, but so far it looks like a LANDSLIDE for Titere.
Jack
PS: Still no one has anything to say about Gr Ch Hank (5xW)??
This isn't a pop at the publisher of the SDJ nor an accusation but a general observation. It's very simple as the editor of a magazine to be corrupt, especially when your opinion can make somebody a lot of money.
As for mayday and machobuck they may have beat first time outs for their gr ch but in my opinion it boils down to what competitors owned those first time outs and what did all the other dogs up for doy discussion do that year?Exactly right.
No disrespect to the SDJ, but he is just one man with an opinion.
Further, I have no idea as to his actual credentials as a dogman. (Does anyone?
Has he ever bred or showed a Champion? How long has he been in dogs? Etc., etc.
All he has done, as far as I know, is take the name of Jack Kelly's magazine ... but he does not have Jack Kelly's credentials or contacts.
I give the guy all the credit in the world for his efforts, and for the tremendous job he does in making it the nicest-looking APBT magazine I have ever seen.
But I still do not agree with a lot of his choices.
Hell, for that matter, we can take a hard look at even Jack Kelly's choices.
He was just a man with an opinion too ... a more informed opinion than most, but an opinion nonetheless.
Jack Kelly sure didn't see all these dogs go, that he voted on, he merely "talked to people on the phone," same as most.
For example, Jack Kelly refused to list European/foreign Champions, which I believe is short-sided and wrong. I understand the lack of contacts, so be it, but this is the internet and (like it or not) we are now in a global world, not an isolated one. I think it is fascinating learning about European Champions, and I wish I had more contacts for Asian Champions. I had some Philippine contacts, but one of the greatest dogs ever from my line was in Japan, and I never knew anyone who could really give me much info on him. This was more than 1.5 decades ago, and I wish I knew the internet then as I do now.
We all just "assumed" Jack Kelly was the leader at the time, and took his Dog of the Year title as gospel ... but we don't have to do so now
I have enough of my own experience now not to care about too many other opinions, and I know many of you do also.
For example, when we think of dogs like Gr Ch Titere, and what he accomplished, how did dogs like Mayday and Machobuck get DOY titles?
Sure, I love Mayday, as he came from Hollingsworth, and Machobuck is such a good-looking dog you want to just GIVE him a title (
But in all seriousness what did they do, over and above winning 5, to warrant DOY status?
They damned sure didn't do what Titere did (beat 4xWs and 6xWs back-to-back) ... if I recall correctly both Mayday and Machobuck beat ZERO-TIME WINNERS to earn their 5th deal and Gr Ch titles. Hey, winning 5 is a great accomplishment in-and-of itself ... but is it really Dog of the Year material?
Not when compared to some of these other dogs it's not. Gr Ch DaBeast beat Ch Glock and Gr Ch Bo Duke (5xW) to earn DOY status ... so how in the world does beating ZERO-TIME WINNERS qualify any dog for a DOY title?
The Pit Bull Bible Online APBT Database is actually poised to be in a position to offer what NO magazine offers and that is transparency and voting.
Yall can vote, and yall can see HOW MANY votes there are
What magazine can offer that?
ZERO.
Who cares what one magazine editor has to say, when we can hear what every member here has to say?
We will be putting the matter to a vote, soon, but so far it looks like a LANDSLIDE for Titere.
Jack
PS: Still no one has anything to say about Gr Ch Hank (5xW)??
That is exactly my point: FAVORITISM.
Did Jack Kelly give the DOY awards based on merit, or because "he knew the guys" and wanted to do them a favor?
Didn't Fat Bill show his own contempt for Kelly, eventually, by re-naming it the "Jeep/Buck Journal?"
Gr Ch Mayday is one of *the* most prolific producers in history, and that was partly due to his quality (of course), but also partly due to the fact Victor had at least 60 bitches to breed to him, and ran full-page ads offering pups out of him + stud service, for the better part of a decade.
Do you think Gr Ch DaBeast (7xW) DOY might be able to produce some Champions if Cash Money had 60+ bitches, and offered pups off the dog in full page ads for 10 years?
How about Gr Ch Titere (9xW) DOY? Does anyone think he might be able to do so?
Jack
When Hardcore Kennels beat David Tant with Ch Doogie (3xW), to earn Doogie the DOY status, he at least beat Tant's Ch Rocko (4xW).
So you're saying Mayday really did deserve DOY status for forcing David Tant to pick up a 0xW in an hour?
You're saying that is in the same league and ballpark? Really?
In your judgement you are prepared to say "forcing a guy to pick up a 0x winner in an hour" really was "the best accomplishment" of any dog in 1996?
And with Gr Ch Machobuck, you're saying he deserved DOY status for beating "old man Jacobs'" 0x winner in 1:20 also?
Is beating Jacobs an accomplishment?
I know 3 people who have beat Jacobs, 2 of which with my dogs, but that doesn't mean either they (or my dogs) deserve DOY status for beating an old man with a 0x/1xW.
Shouldn't the DOY Designation be for "something more" than beating old men with 0xWs?
Shouldn't the DOY title be about THE VERY BEST FACING THE VERY BEST?
If there aren't Grand Champions versus Grand Champions in that year, shouldn't there at least be Champions beating Champions ... or something great beating something great?
Why else should there be a DOY status?
If 5xWs are going to face 0xWs to earn their 5xW status ... okay, they became 5xWs (and deserve their titles) but do they also deserve DOY status?
Are they even trying to impress, or are they just "wanting to make sure they get 5?"
Hell, even Jack Kelly stipulated that 3 out of the 5 matches had to be against winners/known kennels, precisely so people wouldn't pad their records.
Jack
It's no secret that there have been many many accusations about Jack Kelly and Crenshaw making up reports for the journal. I've heard my fair share of them that's for sure, but like everything in dogs I've heard all sorts of stories and wouldn't know what to believe.
The only time a dog man tells the truth is when he calls another dogman a liar. And the only thing dogmen agree on is that their dogs are the best.
Well, that is exactly WHY having a transparent voting system is superior to "an old editor" running a private mag, is it not?
It would be pretty hard for me to sit here and watch person-after-person vote for Titere ... and then give my buddy a DOY title
Also, to defend the editors a bit, they may really believe the story of the guy on the phone ("Yeah, he beat a 4xW in an hour,") but the dog really beat a 0xW.
Gr Ch Ol School supposedly beat a Champion for his last ... but, through the transparency of the internet, his last opponent is believed to have LIED and only had a 0xW.
And didn't the new SDJ award DOY status to some bitch Champion Scratch & Go had that never really won anything?
This is why the idea of throwing it all onto the table, to be debated, is better than just waiting for an editor to make a random decision at the end of the year ...
The DOY title should NOT be one guy's decision IMO, but it should be a general consensus.
It doesn't have to be as unanimous as Titere, but there should be at least an acknowledgement that all the dogs in consideration HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE.
Jack
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