SHAVING bulldog in keep. (Only reply if you've exp or have knowledge in it.)

[bullyson]

I shave my my dogs front legs the day before the deal to better expose the vein that i am going to hook a line into after the deal "if needed" All this other stuff about shaving is quite laughable to me A Bulldog is gonna be a Bulldog bald or with fur period !!

[gotap_d]

Not necessarily.

1) Who says dog hair weighs 5 oz?

2) The idea that a 5-oz advantage of two otherwise identical individuals = a 100% success guarantee is insane.

3) You cannot ever be guaranteed to able to beat yourself, twice in a row. The other "you" has the same chance.

Jack

With all things being equal except the weight i believe it does equal a 100% success rate. Even if if doesn't it is still an advantage. Jack if you were fighting your self with the same training and a 15lb weight advantage that it would be an even matchup?

[CLIMATE]

I shave my my dogs front legs the day before the deal to expose the vein that i am going to hook a line into after the deal "if needed" All this other stuff about shaving is quite laughable to me A Bulldog is gonna be a Bulldog bald or with fur period !!

misleading yourself from this post is quite laughable to me. Before you laugh out of no where awkwardly, read and understand this post carefully. No one said anything about making a bulldog with or without fur and if you didn't know, you were suppose to have a bulldog in hand to bet with.

[EWO]

I can't see the benefit but that's just me. If hair weighs a couple of ounces, (which I think might be a stretch but I have never weighed hair, or weighed a dog pre- then post- shave. So for that my knowledge is limited). Since lots of people use digital scales now maybe a couple three ounces can be helpful in making weight. I will admit last Feb. we saw one pay the forfeit at 39.1 and maybe a good haircut prevents that from happening. When they did the dogs anyway I can't see where there was a bunch of difference between the 38.9 and the 39.1. (Did I say I dislike digital scales?, but that is a different topic altogether)

In one of my very first posts I made a point and I will make it again here. If a guy shaved his dog and he won then odds are he will shave the next one, even if it had little to do with the good performance. If he wins again with a shaved dog then he has developed his way. Let him teach that way to another and if the other wins then you would be hard pressed to convince them otherwise.

I made the point about feed, if a guy is winning feeding corn flakes and cabbage, anyone, board members included, will have a hard time convincing him otherwise.

EWO

[S_B]

I can't see the benefit but that's just me. If hair weighs a couple of ounces, (which I think might be a stretch but I have never weighed hair, or weighed a dog pre- then post- shave. So for that my knowledge is limited). Since lots of people use digital scales now maybe a couple three ounces can be helpful in making weight. I will admit last Feb. we saw one pay the forfeit at 39.1 and maybe a good haircut prevents that from happening. When they did the dogs anyway I can't see where there was a bunch of difference between the 38.9 and the 39.1. (Did I say I dislike digital scales?, but that is a different topic altogether)

In one of my very first posts I made a point and I will make it again here. If a guy shaved his dog and he won then odds are he will shave the next one, even if it had little to do with the good performance. If he wins again with a shaved dog then he has developed his way. Let him teach that way to another and if the other wins then you would be hard pressed to convince them otherwise.

I made the point about feed, if a guy is winning feeding corn flakes and cabbage, anyone, board members included, will have a hard time convincing him otherwise.

EWO

Perfectly said EWO, it is a strategy that a handler/conditioner come up with that they feel gives them a slight edge because of exactly what you just said.

[Officially Retired]

With all things being equal except the weight i believe it does equal a 100% success rate.

You are insane to think a 5 oz weight advantage = a 100% success rate.

Do you have the same running score every time?
How about the same weight lift results? Every time?
How about when you play a game? Same score every time?

You have different capabilities each day, hell each hour, and so would your mirror opposite.

To think that the adding of a mere 5 oz would slide the scale to from 50-50 to a 100% success rate is daft, at best, if not insane.

Even if if doesn't it is still an advantage.

A 5 oz advantage

Jack if you were fighting your self with the same training and a 15lb weight advantage that it would be an even matchup?

A 15 lb advantage is significant ... a 48x more significant advantage than a 5 oz advantage ... but even this is not a 100% guarantee of success.

Ever heard of David and Goliath?

It's all about ODDS ... a 5 oz advantage is negligible ... a 15 lb advantage would dramatically change the odds, but yet still not guarantee success.

Jack

[gotap_d]

You are insane to think a 5 oz weight advantage = a 100% success rate.

Do you have the same running score every time?
How about the same weight lift results? Every time?
How about when you play a game? Same score every time?

You have different capabilities each day, hell each hour, and so would your mirror opposite.

To think that the adding of a mere 5 oz would slide the scale to from 50-50 to a 100% success rate is daft, at best, if not insane.





A 5 oz advantage





A 15 lb advantage is significant ... a 48x more significant advantage than a 5 oz advantage ... but even this is not a 100% guarantee of success.

Ever heard of David and Goliath?

It's all about ODDS ... a 5 oz advantage is negligible ... a 15 lb advantage would dramatically change the odds, but yet still not guarantee success.

Jack

Anyone who doesn't think any weight differenve is an advantage with ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL is insane. All things equal if you're 100% your mirror is 100%. If dog A has a slight cold his mirror has a slight cold. Track runner #1 runs a 4 minute mile today his mirror runs a 4 minute mile today.

Your laughing at a 5oz advantage. Thats fine laugh at all the dogmen who take the forfeit and run when the other dog is over 5oz. They must believe they are at a disadvantage.

And i brought up a 15lb difference to illustrate an example using humans not dogs.

Yes i have heard of david and goliath. What does that have to do with what we are talking about? Nothing because they ARE NOT MIRRORS of each other. Two different people with different skill sets and different weapons.

It was a good topic but i think the dead horse is being beaten. I've stated my OPINION and enjoyed the discussion. Thats all i have to say.

[bullyson]

Huh ???

[MOSES]

That is incorrect thinking. Shaving a dog for weight purposes only needs to be done once and it will be near the end of the keep.

There are two reasons someone would shave a dog for weight purposes. The 1st is the day of the race they see that they wont make weight and start shaving their dog to get off whatever they can. The 2nd way is what i do and it is for an advantage. For example lets say im bringing in a 40lb male and he is sitting at 41-1/2 a week out. I already know how much feed and water to gelive the rest of the keep and come show night i will be 40lbs on the nose. I'll empty my dog out and weigh him he weighs 41-1/2 then i shave him and he weighs 41.3 i removed 5oz of hair. If i continue with the current feed plan i will fall under weight on show night so the food and water intake is adjusted accordingly. Show night comes and i still fall dead on 40lbs but i was able to give my dog more food/fluids than i would have been able to had he not been shaved. It may not seem like a big deal but it is an advantage. If you bring Gr Ch Buck and hook into my Gr Ch Buck with identical keeps but my Buck weighs 5oz bigger I would win.

Gotap_d I respectfully disagree with you, but to each his own, no harm no foul on my end. However, riddle me this. If a conditioner takes the time to put a hound on a scale twice a day, weighing his feed, and regulating his water, for 8-10 weeks, why would you change anything at the last minute? That makes zero since to me.

I have two full grown Akitas (90 and 110 lbs) and I could guess what 5 oz of hair looks like, and I don’t see that coming off of 40 lb bulldog.

REALLY! If you think that 5 oz of hair is going to be difference maker in a hound’s performance, more power to you. If I bring ANYTHING and 5 oz stands between me and a win, I would seriously have to reconsider my position on a whole lot of things.

I have won more than once with what I thought was an inferior hound, not because I shaved him down to his nuts chasing 5 oz. I don’t care what “lane” you are in it boils down to conditioning. Bringing the bigger dog is as much science as it is an art when it comes to conditioning, and then their still is not guarantee that you are fielding the bigger hound.

Assume for a minute that you have two equally matched opponents in all areas; the athlete in superior condition will win the majority of the time.

[Officially Retired]

Anyone who doesn't think any weight differenve is an advantage with ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL is insane. All things equal if you're 100% your mirror is 100%. If dog A has a slight cold his mirror has a slight cold. Track runner #1 runs a 4 minute mile today his mirror runs a 4 minute mile today.

You don't have the ability to say the same thing twice and keep your thoughts consistent.

You first said you thought a 5 oz advantage was a 100% guarantee of success.

Now you're saying it's "an advantage"

Well, no shit, I already agreed it was an advantage ... a 5 oz advantage

Your laughing at a 5oz advantage. Thats fine laugh at all the dogmen who take the forfeit and run when the other dog is over 5oz. They must believe they are at a disadvantage.

You're, not your.

Just because some dogmen run over 5 oz doesn't mean anything.

Other dogmen push weight and win.

I agree weight matters, when it's significant; we just disagree that 5 oz is "significant."

You also have yet to prove that shaved dog hair = 5 oz, which I doubt very much, so I think "shaving hair" is even less significant.

And i brought up a 15lb difference to illustrate an example using humans not dogs.

In addition to having trouble with concepts, you also have trouble with proportions and math.

15 lb = 48x greater than 5 oz

(1lb = 16 oz x 15 = 240 oz)

240/5 = 48

The average pit dog is 40 lb.
The average human fighter around 160.

This means the average person is 4x the size of the average dog (not 48x the size).
This means you are exaggerating to make a point, so let's bring you back down to reality.

If the average man is 4x the size of the average dog, then you multiply 5 oz x 4 which would = 20 oz (1.25 lb).

This means your big 5 oz "advantage" in a 40 lb bulldog is equal to a 1.25 lb (20 oz) advantage in a middleweight (160 lb) human, which again isn't shit.

Yes i have heard of david and goliath. What does that have to do with what we are talking about? Nothing because they ARE NOT MIRRORS of each other. Two different people with different skill sets and different weapons.

Even the same two people would be different. You are different now from what you were yesterday.

If you played a computer game twice, you would make different choices and get different scores.

As with your lack of understanding of everything else, you're not understanding this concept.

People are not robots who do the same things every time; they are different every single day.

It was a good topic but i think the dead horse is being beaten. I've stated my OPINION and enjoyed the discussion. Thats all i have to say.

Well, it is a good topic, but when you actually THINK about it, and use facts, 1) no one has yet to prove what dog hair weighs, and even if it weighs 5 ounces, which I very much doubt, it still doesn't do shit.

I do agree that weight is significant, when the amount of weight is significant.
But 5 oz isn't shit to a dog (and I still don't think dog hair even weighs 5 oz).

The best middleweight human fighters are not going to win/lose over a 1.25 lb difference in weight, and the best 40 lb dogs are not going to win/lose over 5 oz either.

Other factors will make the difference.

Jack