Glad to hear you agree with what I said to a point S_B
Glad to hear you agree with what I said to a point S_B
I'm not into questioning myself or my dogs in this way any longer. I'm where you are in your second sentence. If you are familiar with your stock to me it's a constant repeat of what you've already seen. At least the way I've chosen to make my breeding decisions has laid a path of consistency. It really is like revisiting past dogs over and over, although there are those few that make you scratch your head, good or bad.Originally Posted by FrostyPaws
I've never been one to really brag on any dog I have or had, I think you know that Frosty. I'm super humble in that way, I tend to be hard on them in my opinions, especially if I ever label one as good. But I won't look at them personally as curs to prove me otherwise. That mentality will leave me falling short of many goals I'm afraid, especially because mentally I'm already in a battle with myself. If that makes sense.
S_B
Yes sir good post.
S_B
If we insist on using the non-thinking word "cur," and define it as "any dog that will quit," then all dogs are curs.
With the right helpings of poor health, human stupidity, odds stacked against it, etc. every dog will quit.
If we want to be the eternal skeptic, and question everything, then even dogs that have "never" quit and have shown extreme gameness under ONE set of circumstances, only didn't because they weren't exposed to the right circumstances.
Gameness is like ability ... it comes in varying degrees.
We want extremes in both; but no dog is perfect/flawless/infallible, etc.
Some dogs are blatantly flawed; some are above average; some are spectacular.
Still (and again) with the right helpings of poor health, human stupidity, odds stacked against it, etc. every dog can be induced to quit.
Jack
I don't see gameness in degrees. I do see everything listed as mismanagement or reasons one may quit. Still it takes away from a game dog to put it as degrees because of a situation or mismanagement. We do expect a lot of the dogs and experience shows us many mistakes but the classification is based on outcome. The choices, excuse, and opinion of what may have went wrong or caused a dog to quit is more subjective or plain we as humans blew it. In that case you have a choice to move forward with that individual in your program or not. We can't redefine gameness though our standards and decisions as humans will always vary IMO.
EGK,
I mean no disrespect in using this example, but I believe it to be a good one to insert here. We both know of a little black dog who went quite a distance before standing the line. He was in excellent shape and in good hands in my opinion. He protested quite a bit but did not come out of a hold for over 2 hours. He was on the defensive side of things nearly the entire time.
Do you think that dog displayed a varying degree of gameness? I do! I believe he was in there more for his handler than his heart but some dogs will do more for their handler because of their bond.
S_B
This dog is not a cur.
This dog was game enough to win.
S_B no disrespect taken and you actually have me thinking how to explain this lol, great example. I believe that little black dog had his fill that day. No matter how long he went he also left some things to be desired. I wouldn't say POS cur because he was shock blind at the point of truth telling. I just acknowledged he was stopped and was a good little game dog though not a proven game loss and I do believe the bond kept him going a good deal. He took more than most and I see his case as the difference between cur and stopped. He couldn't see the hand being waved a few inches in front his face, started out the corner off a clap stumbling to a neutral corner. You see what I'm saying it's more a reason and situation. It's not so much anybody would question the heart shown. I get the degrees deal completely but I don't think exceptions and reasons or situations dont need a label as its described. Minus the reasons and situations some just can take more than others. In most it'll create a stigma to question objective and have them looking for the reason each one quit.
Cur is just a word used to describe something. Dogs that quit in an hour are curs. Dogs that quit in 3 hours are curs. A dog in shock most of the time can't go when it gets so far, so I don't lump them into the discussion. Before I label a dog a cur, I would like to see what exactly happened. Did the dog just quit or was it stopped? Lord knows most folks simply can't tell the difference. So no, I don't think it's a non-thinking word. I think if I label a dog as such, I've given it a lot of thought as to what happened.
Don't believe that as I've seen those right helpings and the dog paid for it with it's life.
Question everything? I can see a dog's ability, talent, it's strength, etc. There is nothing eternally skeptical in those thoughts. You may be right, AND you may be wrong about dogs that have never quit. At that point, it's simply supposition on our part as people. And that supposition holds a lot more weight coming from some people as opposed to others, and I'm ok with that.
Gameness is not like ability IMO. I believe dogs are either game or they're not. Now, that doesn't take away from a dog that loses in 3 hours, gets drilled the entire time and stops. There is no shame in breeding to a dog such as that, but that being said, he wasn't a game dog. Maybe he was in the 2 or 3% of dogs on the planet at any given time that will take that much, but he still wasn't a proven game dog. Top shelf cur maybe?
I don't want extremes in both; I only want extremes in one.
I won't actively search out those type of things anymore, but there was a time when I did, and I'm ok with that. Experience has taught me a great many things in regards to dogs. That usually means it will come out in the wash sooner or later, and it usually does. The only goal I ever seriously had was to make sure the dogs I bred represented my ideals of what game dogs should be. Anything more than that was just icing on the proverbial cake.
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