sister vs. sister/brother vs.brother

[gotap_d]

I disagree with this.

To just "match weights" with no regard for bloodline is to have zero loyalty to anything but "dog fighting" ...

If I have 2 super brothers, why would I devastate my gene pool by matching them into each other?

Even if 1 brother beats the other, it doesn't mean the other brother couldn't beat a dog that his better brother would lose to (A beats B ... B beats C ... C beats A ... happens all the time).

I would rather match both brothers into some other bloodline.

People who think like this are almost never breeders, just dog matchers (who have to buy their best dogs from breeders, precisely because they match and waste everything they have ...)

Very few people that are doing dogs care about the bloodlines they are going into in terms of trying to avoid a certain bloodline because of who bred what. You are clearly speaking from a breeders point of view and not a competitors pov. Those 2 perspevtives are different. If I made a breeding (just as a breeder) and 2 dogs from my breeding program were open at the same weight i would not want them to be matched into each other. On the other hand if I had a son off of mayday and someone who i didnt know or mind racing against had a littermate open at the same weight and everything lined up i wouldnt have the least bit of hesitation to hook into the littermate.

If you believe you have the best 40 and someone 2 states over believes his littermate bro is the best 40 in the world you are saying they should go into perhaps lesser dogs so they can avoid a loss?

[Officially Retired]

Very few people that are doing dogs care about the bloodlines they are going into in terms of trying to avoid a certain bloodline because of who bred what. You are clearly speaking from a breeders point of view and not a competitors pov. Those 2 perspevtives are different. If I made a breeding (just as a breeder) and 2 dogs from my breeding program were open at the same weight i would not want them to be matched into each other.

We agree.

On the other hand if I had a son off of mayday and someone who i didnt know or mind racing against had a littermate open at the same weight and everything lined up i wouldnt have the least bit of hesitation to hook into the littermate.

In this scenario, I also agree.

If you believe you have the best 40 and someone 2 states over believes his littermate bro is the best 40 in the world you are saying they should go into perhaps lesser dogs so they can avoid a loss?

Here is where you spiral down the drain.

There is no such thing as "the best 40-lb dog in the world."

There are too many 40-lb dogs on the planet to make that statement.

You can say you have the "winningest" 40-lb dog on the planet (if that's true), but winning 6 doesn't necessarily make the dog "the best" (just the winningest).

Therefore, if someone had the littermate brother to my badass dog, and he was a badass dog too, I would simply be rooting for that brother to win his matches, while I select other 40-lb dogs to beat with my dog.

As I said in paragraph 2 of my previous post, "To just 'match weights' with no regard for bloodline is to have zero loyalty to anything but 'dog fighting' ..."

[gotap_d]

We agree.





In this scenario, I also agree.





Here is where you spiral down the drain.

There is no such thing as "the best 40-lb dog in the world."

There are too many 40-lb dogs on the planet to make that statement.

You can say you have the "winningest" 40-lb dog on the planet (if that's true), but winning 6 doesn't necessarily make the dog "the best" (just the winningest).

Therefore, if someone had the littermate brother to my badass dog, and he was a badass dog too, I would simply be rooting for that brother to win his matches, while I select other 40-lb dogs to beat with my dog.

As I said in paragraph 2 of my previous post, "To just 'match weights' with no regard for bloodline is to have zero loyalty to anything but 'dog fighting' ..."

So while you are rooting for their littermate bro they decide to give you a call and say "hey jack i see your male is open, lets set the date and weight." Your response to them would be what?

[Johngilpat]

Honestly i really don't see a problem with matching the dogs together I was asking for a history lesson.To me there is really no difference in matching brother/brother or sister/sister than Bullyson to his son or when Aycart went against Tant, or any random Eli dog against another. I very well could be wrong just my opinion.

[Officially Retired]

So while you are rooting for their littermate bro they decide to give you a call and say "hey jack i see your male is open, lets set the date and weight." Your response to them would be what?

Simple: "WTF? I won't match into (my dog's) brother

"There are hundreds of x-lb dogs out there, good luck with matching into them."

[EWO]

As I said in paragraph 2 of my previous post, "To just 'match weights' with no regard for bloodline is to have zero loyalty to anything but 'dog fighting' ..."

To some it is all about weights. To some their loyalty lies in the desire to stand on top of the winning dog. To some standing on top of the winning dog is a better shake than preserving a family or perpetuating a bloodline. If that meant winning over the dog's brother or even the handler's brother, the loyalty is to winning, more so than dog fighting.

EWO

[Officially Retired]

To some it is all about weights. To some their loyalty lies in the desire to stand on top of the winning dog. To some standing on top of the winning dog is a better shake than preserving a family or perpetuating a bloodline. If that meant winning over the dog's brother or even the handler's brother, the loyalty is to winning, more so than dog fighting.
EWO

I understand that.

To some it's all about winning, to others it's all about having (and perpetuating) exceptional qualities in a group of dogs.

Ultimately, it is all about values.

IMO, those who hyper-focus on winning, placing this value above all else, are typically those with highly-suspect characters ... and are generally the most destructive individuals in the sport.

For example, such folks are prone rub the other dog (or sneak-in a foul in some other kind of way). "Winning is everything," is their justification.

Even the so-called "honest" competitors who place winning over all else seldom have any dogs live a long time on their yard (and they're seldom able to breed many good dogs of their own).

They waste more than they win.

It is inarguable that having 2 high-quality Champion brothers is better overall than having 1 Champion brother standing over his dead littermate.

The dead brother might have produced better; the live Champion might go sterile, or die in a yard accident, blah-blah.

Killing-off the competition is teamwork; killing off each other is stupidity. (Works that way in war, sports, etc.)

But there are people who will do that ... who are absolutely, totally into "themselves" and "winning ... to the exclusion of everything else ... and I don't trust such people as far as I could throw them.

Jack

[gotap_d]

As I said in paragraph 2 of my previous post, "To just 'match weights' with no regard for bloodline is to have zero loyalty to anything but 'dog fighting' ..."

To some it is all about weights. To some their loyalty lies in the desire to stand on top of the winning dog. To some standing on top of the winning dog is a better shake than preserving a family or perpetuating a bloodline. If that meant winning over the dog's brother or even the handler's brother, the loyalty is to winning, more so than dog fighting.

EWO

I'm with you on this post. Its just 2 different sides of the fence. All of those things scream competitor except preserving the family or perpetuating a bloodline part. We were using the great Ch vs great Ch littermate example. What if one of the dogs was a hard mouthed cur that ran through all of his schoolings. His littermate bro gets hooked into him and causes him to pack it in short order because he cant take qhat he dishes out. Thats preserving the bloodline. Keeping the inferior cur brother from ever being bred in the first place.

[FrostyPaws]

I'm not a "win at all costs" type competitor, nor am I a breeder of any particular line of dogs with my name on it. That being said, I wouldn't match a dog into his littermate. I've already seen both dogs, had my hands on both dogs, and I probably kept the dog I like best. If the brother can win against open competition, that's great, but don't expect me to hook into some dog I bred with his brother.

To Johngilpat, matching into the same bloodline isn't the same as matching into littermates. You can't really escape showing into dogs of similar lines, but you surely can escape showing into littermates.

[HAMMER49]

With people selling dogs from coast to coast it gets a little tough to know exactly what you're going into. Assume you set a date with a guy that is 3 or 4 states away. A mutual friend sets the stage, but a couple weeks in, you find out you are racing a half brother to what you're bringing. Both of you bought dogs from said breeder and like the results. Do you then pay the ff because of loyalties to the blood? Suppose its a litter mate. What then do you do?
Now as a breeder I would never do such a thing. I would also hope that no one whom has my animals would do so. That is the problem some run into when you make your animals commercial products. They go all over and they may or may not go into one another. Not everyone cares to perpetuate a bloodline, but you hope they do right by your blood.