Starting a family off of a scatter bred or outcross dog

[Officially Retired]

Exactly and great post. I think more folks would do better once they start being more honest with themselves, every dog that does good in a roll or even wins a show don't mean he's worth building a line around. You have to know percentages, of his litter, if possible of other litters that sire & dam produced. Was this litter their best or does pop throw this every time or does dam throw this every time. The more information you can get to analyze the better, doesn't guarantee anything but #s might not tell the whole story but they don't lie either.

Good post.

Another thing to keep in mind, if the dogs are really good, is NOT to stop at the first generation ... because you may need "one more" breeding step to solidify the percentages

Some dogs aren't very good producers ... as sires ... but they are as grandsires/granddams

In other words, the first generation may not be the dogs you hope, but taking another breeding step (to isolate the genes) might be required.

For example, Ch Hammer was considered NOT to be a very good producer ... yet he was a living DG dog and was out of an all-game litter. Many people told me "not" to breed to Hammer, because he "couldn't produce," but I ignored their bad advise and bred to him with Miss Trinx, who was also out of an all-game litter. The result? I got an all-game litter of absolutely prepotent producers

Moreover, on my double-, triple-, and quadruple-bred Hammer dogs, I continuously enjoyed high-percentages ... even though Ch Hammer was not thought of as a "good producer."

The truth is, (2) Ch Hammer's real pedigree wasn't known, (2) most people did not breed Ch Hammer to the same-quality bitch as I did, and (3) most of the idiots who had Hammer pups were rolling the shit out of them at an early age.

By ignoring the "advice" of UNsuccessful idiots, and by realizing that Ch Hammer was as close to DG as a live dog could be, came from an all-game litter, and by breeding him TO a truly quality bitch, I was able to create the cornerstone of my own bloodline, using my own ideas, and I produced more winners and quality dogs than ANYone who poo-pooed the idea of my breeding to Hammer.

I was confident that Hammer could produce, if bred to the right bitch, and if the pups were done right.

So, again, let your own gut, knowledge, and beliefs be your guide ... never "anyone else's" ...

Jack

[dtakennels]

What about Jeep and Yellow...Those 2 did rather well.

[Officially Retired]

What about Jeep and Yellow...Those 2 did rather well.

LOL, true.

However, Yellow wasn't scatterbred, he was a straight cross out of 2 inbred animals.

But they both came from fabulous litters, so yeah, when dogs of that quality appear ... in those kinds of percentages in their litters ... it's time to drop anchor and build a bloodline.

[CrazyRed]

What about Jeep and Yellow...Those 2 did rather well.

I was about to say the same thing. You most certainly have to drop anchor there and see where that takes you. Yellow being a good 50/50 was worth because you had 2 familes to test breedings with.. Depending on how you view Jeep ped, it wasn't really scatter. Ped that shows, his top side is pretty much a colby dog.. Some believe Bo was actually inbred Cotton's Bullet.. But if you look at the bottom side it's not scatter either if you believe it. Bullyson inbred Blind Billy dog, Dibo.. bred to Amber Double grandaughter of Black Widow.. Some believe Amber to be a double bred daughter of Cracker or believe that Honeybunch is truly off Ch Cracker which would make sense.. But while Jeep isn't inbred based on the posted ped his parents are heavy linebred dogs.

[Officially Retired]

Some believe Amber to be a double bred daughter of Cracker or believe that Honeybunch is truly off Ch Cracker which would make sense..

I was going to say that as well

Typically, for a dog to come from a high-percentage litter, and to be prepotent, at least 1 of the parents has to be an inbred/linebred animal.

Doesn't hurt if you keep breeding the offspring back to one side (or the other) of the pedigree either, as is what was perpetually done with both dogs.

Jack

[bossman311]

How many have tried this with success?

Yes Sir. Doesn't matter how you start but how you finish.
The best way to get working dogs is to work dogs,keep going to it's so consistent you can see it in your sleep.
I started with them so no one claim claim them.
Here's a recent breeding. few have dogs this tight & very few have this much hands on exp. per generation.
If you like the dogs & they work get it started & stick with it.
Don't worry about famous dogs, you make them famous if that's what you are into.
Scatter or not you can make them tight.

[bossman311]

Her's another one of mines bred from scratch on a based on a great dog Johnie Rockhead.