At the end of the day your right EWO i am being kind of selfish because it could screw up other people's peds if it is changed. I just know what i have seen and what i was told about this line of dogs. i will copy my post about genetics and post it as a new thread also
Ditto EWO, you nailed it on the head. If one raises a lot of dogs and advertises them for sale. You got to sell the majority whether good dogs or bad. They are not like hogs or cattle, you can not eat them unless you are Korean etc. LOL Garner is probably the most successful dog man in selling dogs today. His business know how is pure genius.
If I was to start a new yard, I would begin with a dog man that has only fourteen dogs at the present. To improve on the dog keep that I knew how to do, that worked for me. I would spend some personnel time with you. Some things you talked about on this site opened up a whole new idea of doing things to me. Would have worked like a dream with my round table keep. Would have cut out a lot of excessive walking time for me. Cheers
Hello Bolero. What name or Kennel name are you using on your dog's pedigrees on this site?
I am looking forward to it. I have never bred a lot of dogs as for me it has always been way more trouble than it is worth. But I do like reading about the subject.
I can read the scientific journals and articles with the best of them but they can get boring really quick. They often remind me of the professional Nanny that never raised any children of her own. If that makes sense.
I would rather here it from people who bred the dogs, worked the dogs and made the dogs. I'm CYJ's biggest fan as he put his hands or his eyes on the dogs that land on top of a lot of my dogs.
Same with Bolero. The best male I ever owned, and one of the best I have ever seen was a Bolio cross out of Miss Two Eyes. In a minute I will get up out of this recliner and give my self the daily kick in the ass for selling him. Even after all these years.
So when people post with the history and personal experience I always listen up.
EWO
That road travels both ways. I was truly paying attention to the turn table experiences you mentioned. I like it a lot. As a matter of fact I am about to move it under a shelter. The weather the last two winters has been hard on the old girl.
Like we talked about using the mobile home axle vs. car axle left it a lot more free than I expected. Not expecting the pure speed in which it would turn I did not do a lot of forethought concerning brakes. I had a nut job of a dog on there and he was turning it like a free spinning mill. What is worse is he was a dog that would drive himself into the ground running the anything. I put blisters on my hands trying to stop it that first day. As I was talking to myself I said, "What a frikkin' dumbass I am".
But with your help it worked like a dream.
EWO
Originally Posted by CYJ
Ditto EWO. I know about that. LOL My table ran knee high sitting in a chair by the dog. I kept a pair of knee pads on my knees and leather gloves on my hands if something went awry. Murphy's law was always around the corner, waiting to pounce on me. LOL
One time I had a young dog get off the chain and run inside my building, while one of my dog was running on the table. I was scrabbling that night, the dog on the table was about to fly off to the moon. Had that table whirling. LOL
Matt White, the (Professor) bought my table and my eighty foot swinging Jenny.. Took it all back to his home and never set it back up. A dog man on here that use to know and visit Matt. Said it was all still there out in the weather. That was some years back.
Year or so after that my life had calmed down some. I wish I had not got rid of my table and my Young's Winchester stud dog and my Young's little twenty nine pound,. Black Betty female. Time to stand up and give myself a kick. LOL Cheers
I never worked with a Jenny as much as I would have liked. I built one once. It had arm about 27-28 foot. No sooner than I built it I decided to build a shop. That spot is the flattest I have so the shop took precedent.
I would have liked to try it a little more.
EWO
I had no luck with my swinging jenny. The weather in the Pee Dee area is to changing for a outside Jenny. Unless a dog is brought up running one. A lot of dogs will not run one even when bait is in front of them. Or they will get frustrated and attack the mill possibly breaking a tooth. In cold windy weather a dog will not like running a Jenny no more than you will like standing out there in it.
Track gets wet or freezes up not much you can do till it drys out. The Jenny of the larger sizes seem to work best out in more Desert type weather like Texas etc. If one had a huge and wide type Barn or building. That gets you and dog out of the weather will help a lot. Still the dog may not like working it.
Yet even a first time puppy will run a big turn table. Seems a dog or puppy likes them like a Guinea pig likes a Wheel cage. Lot of dogs do not like noisy tread mills either or the strain one can put on their back end if over done.
I still feel that some walking before after and during, along with the table to weight pull and back to the table in sets. After a dog has had a proper pre keep. Is the Cat's Meow way in my part of the country. Cheers
The man makes some damn good points!
LOYALTY BEFORE ROYALTY !!!
Selfish is a stretch, but the intent is to make things right as you believe them to be, or even know them to be. It is just hard to change things after such a long time.
I have posted this a number of times before. I am not a breeder but I enjoy looking at older pedigrees. With that said, I do enjoy the posts concerning 'how this one was really bred'. They can get from 'just for your information' to 'your mama wears combat boots personal' in a quick minute. Still the same I enjoy reading the posts.
I have one in the back right now that is a good little female. I took a female of mine to be bred to a male that I truly believe is not papered as advertised. There are some things I would consider facts in my mind but I could never prove it without some forensic DNA work on a couple of dead dogs. She is a young female, and maybe she builds the resume of a Snooty, Rascal, Honeybunch, Molly Bee, Red Boy, etc. etc. that some day I can say, "OK, guys this how she was really bred".
This is a topic that has been hot since the dawn of the dogs. Some days it keeps the message boards moving and some days it keep the dogs moving.
On these topics I always quote/paraphrase Mr. Hughes. To know how a dog was truly bred all you have to do is win three or four or produce three or four. There will always be some SOB in the corner that knows 'how a dog is really bred'.
But at the end of the day it is not about being selfish, or which way a pedigree benefits who, it is about getting it right. Getting it right is especially important when it comes to a database, and more so when that database calculates information based on its entries. If it were not for the calculation portion ten pedigrees on the same dog would not really matter. Having a database and using the database makes making changes to older pedigrees a tremendous decision.
I have no viable information either way. Both dogs were way before my time and I do not have the insight of personally knowing the people involved way back then. I like the Snooty version but that is because I have owned a number of Snooty type dogs. That would fall into personal preference not proof one way or the other.
So I am for what is accurate not so much which dog should be on top of Amos. Having enough information to support a change in what has already been accepted is a tough task. If that task is met then I am for making things right.
Hopefully some of the test breeding features will serve the personal preferences and provide the information desired.
EWO
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