Pedigree tool

[Frank43]

Tonight I familiarized myself with the pedigree tool on this site. I am very impressed with it. I did not realize that the wrights coefficient varies so much by adding more generations to the calculations. Even though the studs Im looking at for test breedings are within the same bloodline and family the percentages of individual dogs varies significantly. Ie bolio tombstone between dogs from two different breeders or red boy and jocko. Interesting to see how the percentages of different dogs effected things.

[CYJ]

Ditto Frank43. I wish I had, had something like this back when I had my last families of dogs. This pedigree tool showed me I made a major mistake by not breeding my Young's Winchester stud dog first, over all my main brood bitches. Being Young's Face/ Young's Pearl/Young's Sally/and Young's Black Betty. Winchester was in his prime, a well built put together dog/seal black. Plus a deep game dog, that when a 14 generation pedigree is run on this site. Tudor's Dibo comes up in the third listing around I believe 30%.

IMHO, I was and am a firm believer that the dogs bred around the Tudor/Corvino families of dogs have shown to dominate the dog game when running in top flight competition. To me The Tudor/Corvino families of dogs are sort of like what the Hatch game cocks are to the Game Cock Breeders. The most successful Game Cock breeders will most of the time have a Hatch game cock bloodline for gaminess and power. They then make various crosses for speed and cutting abilities.


The best of those my Young's Winchester crosses would have been a excellent choice. To breed back into V. Jackson's last older family of dogs, we had bred up way back. He would have needed no other crosses for a very long time. One who has a good understanding of the older pedigrees can use this pedigree search/test breeding/ tool to a great advantage.

If they also use well built proven dogs. For example, you have a predomatley Red Boy with less Jock dogs total ancestry family. Without making a total outcross, you would look for another proven family with a predomatley Jocko and less Red Boy to breed too. In a fourteen generation check. The third generation listing will usually give you main genetics in the over all breeding of your dogs. Thanks for your input and Jack's wisdom to build this pedigree search system and analytical system into this site.


P.S. IMHO, for you younger dog men. This is why we should all enter correct pedigrees into this system. The more accurate pedigrees entered, the better this system will work and help you all to make good breeding choice. I have seen where some breeders believed that breeding just CH To Ch or To Gr Ch. To only come up with average or out right cur dogs. It is not in the action of the dogs that produce, but in the genes. Why IMHO it is a bad idea to put down a especially well built cold brood bitch dog. Because it did not turn out like it's Ch sister. The Ch. Sister may never raise a pup or produce anything like itself.

Still with all said. Do not make excuses for a dog that was properly worked and just stands the line. But give a cold dog a chance to produce at least one time. Remember Tombstone's full sister, she was to be put down, but Randy Fox gave this dog a chance to produce and it did. Cheers

[Frank43]

Good post. I don’t know where I fit in this. I love the dogs. I love working them. I love breeding and genetics. I like the history of the breed a lot. I know the game always had thieves, and low lives. Some loved competition, structure and testing if what they believed was true. I forgot who but I think it’s raitliff or somebody that said the box doesn’t lie. I think life is like that too. I like my two pups. Crabb had more tombstone in his dogs than bolio. Over time I want to find some of that. I like toughness and durability like you said.

A cold female wouldn’t bother me. True cold vs cur. I wonder if cold is another level of gameness. Where they can take the pain but don’t have the aggression. I think some of the old timers understood stuff like that. If a bitch had two or three generstions of dogs around and was cold, well built and a good mother. I would keep her. She’d prob raise good pups. Take her to dogs that would fire the offspring up.

[CYJ]

Frank43 a cold bitch has nothing to do with not liking or liking pain. Is a dog that just never starts up or maybe later when around three or four years old. Still even though I mentioned a cold dog. A cur dog is one that starts up and later quits for numerous reasons.

I would never breed a cold dog unless from a litter of proven, well built/well bred litter mates. True some can have a well bred cur dog and use the excuse it was cold to justify breeding it. You can only learn those things from years of experience.


Now the other type dogs I would never breed from is American Pit Bulls with the pretty papers and kept only for dog showing/ pets/ weight pulling/ etc. When the Pit is bred out of the Pit Bull Terrier. What you have left is a American Staffordshire or a English or Colored Bull Terrier, a English Staffordshire terrier/ American Bulldog and the latest fad the American Pit Bullies.


The Truly Game bred American Pit Bull Terrier was never to be part of John Q public's domain. The old timers told me years back they are not for pets and sell none to the public. Had all the real dog persons that followed after them adhered to that philosophy and most did. We would be having a whole lot less problems today and maybe none of the laws against our breed as well.

When ever one can keep a bunch of grown so called Pit Bulls together in a house with no serious problems. IMHO most of them are rank curs no matter how they are bred or look or how much weight they can pull. One out of that crowd should start cleaning out the house. LOL Cheers

[Frank43]

Maybe I was unclear on the definition. My understanding was that they were dogs that didn't start, but wouldn't show bad signs if a dog was put on them. I agree with you on the not being a dog for the general public. All my dogs have been gamebred, but I have never bred or sold them. I like good blood and following the game. It helps me in life for some reason. I couldn't own another dog. If I lived on more land I could be one of the low profile people with a few dogs that people talk about. You have to limit who you are around because the nature of things. Those other avenues are all I have available. Its hard to find a good mentor for dogs. Many around me lack common sense, so I follow things on here and try to find people more experienced. I think people that don't understand the true nature of competitive things don't understand the dogs.

I hear you to a degree on the last part. I think schooling has an effect on some of that. I have always gotten dogs for friends. Usually from active people. We have never had the problem people have with people aggression. I warned them all. One didn't listen and came home to a dead dog years after they had been together. The dog I got for my friend was still alive the other wasn't, both males. I have a male and female with me now. Maybe they will change as they get older. I wouldn't call mine curs I have seen them around other bulldogs. I know they would go take a hold. I have to break them off the hide on the flirt pole.

I think the american bully is a monstrosity. In todays current environment I don't know how you live to standards and keep a clean record.

[ceasar]

Taking a hold and having to be broke off a hide sure don't mean they can't be curs.

Only 1 way to find the curs my friend and it ain't at the end of a flirt pole.

[CYJ]

Ditto Ceasar, I agree 100%. Now for as a pet, I love the look of those Bully dogs. LOL Rather have one of them than a English Bulldog. Probably a easier keeper. That is about as far as it goes though. In my part of the country a Pit Bull to a English Bulldog or vice versus, produced a good farm dog that could work cattle and hogs. Easy going type dog that was a good watch dog as well. The American Bulldog makes a good farm dog and a Pit Bull to a American Bulldog gives you a bigger type work dog much like the English Bulldog/Pit Bull cross.

My Father had various hunting hounds/Pit Bulls/ and one ole logger headed English /Pit cross. This eighty pound all white dog was named Jasper. Stayed right with us young children where ever we went. Would not let us go around the other dogs. Would stand between us and the other dog or dogs. Bark till our mother would see what was going on. Overtime and a few cherry switches we learned our boundaries with Jasper to make sure we stayed in our play area. LOL Cheers

[Frank43]

I know

[apeman]

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