Who is the Better Dogman?

[Frank43]

The guy that is looking to get the best out of each dog is usually the guy who is doing the most with each dog, or the most that he can. The two dog men that turned me onto dogs were hard cullers. Dogs didn't get a lot of chances. They pretty much had to hit the ground running. They both looked at the failures as available chain spaces. Maybe the silver lining approach. I started off the same way.

I would roll on a guys dog and pretty much decide I would put him down. Some guy would keep that dog, breed that dog and two years later kick the shit out of me with the offspring. I am no brain surgeon but after awhile I started to see the value of dogs that were not necessarily match dogs. I am not saying making dogs out of curs but just because a dog is not a top quality match dog he/she can still have value, and in certain aspects even more valuable. One match dog that wins three or one brood dog that produces three dogs that wins three matches.

That in turns goes to the 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. Some guys cull harder than others. Some guys cull dogs that are not match dogs but would be good brood dogs for a breeder but they themselves do not care about breeding/puppies. Some guys will not cull in the hopes of making chicken salad out of chicken shit. Takes all kinds.

One of the early lessons I learned was that the keep does not last eight weeks it starts at nine weeks before they are born. (The forethought/insight into the actual breeding). Any and everything from conception to show night matters. EWO

Genius

[Frank43]

True

[Frank43]

You are only 1 of 2 who voted the other way, while 29 voted the more sensible way.

So you would cull Little Tater, who was the game bum that produced Gr Ch Buck? Or Long's Werdo, who was the game bum that produced Ch Doogie, Ch Rutkus, Ch Rhino, Ch Whiskey, etc.?

The idea of culling game dogs is not too bright IMO ... especially game bums inbred on talented dogs ... as ability (like anything else) can skip a generation ... and those game bums are often fantastic stud dogs.





Now you're preaching what other people should do? Kill dogs the moment they can't be shown?

Sorry, but this is selfish, short-sighted, if not outright daft.

History is filled with all-time-great dogs that couldn't be shown, but were extremely valuable as producers.





Good thing Stone City didn't believe that when they kept and bred Awesome Baby, a cold bitch who out-produced every bitch in the history of dogs, except Honeybunch.

With your ruthless thinking, have you owned any bitches that could compare in any way to Awesome Baby's as a producer?







If you don't believe they can beat the best in the world, then don't put them in with the best of the world.

But that doesn't mean they can't beat a pretty good dog like themselves.

Have you ever really beaten "the best in the world" yourself? (By that I mean, a Grand Champion, Champion, DOY, etc.?) Or are you pretty much just going into "dogs" with (what you call a "world beater") ... without the actual accomplishment you're speaking of, namely beating the best in the world?
99% of all the matches that take place are NOT people going into "the very best"; they're just two dogmen doing what they think are pretty good dogs.

I agree you should go through your dogs, and I also agree that you should bet (and put them with) where you feel they belong ... and I further agree that, if they're not good enough to match, then don't match them.

But I can't agree with killing game plugs, because history is filled with game plugs that will outproduce the daylights over talented Champions, especially if they're bred well.





I may not take the ugly bitch out for steak dinner, but I am not going to kill her either, especially if she has a good heart.

Jack


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Genius

[apeman]

Still relevant

[Frank43]

Yep. Y’all ever look at success rate with number of dogs bred or owned

[Moechief]

If we hold ourselves to the same standard as we want to hold these dogs.....then we would all be superhuman....Daily...I learn more from these dogs when I think of just the gameness of the breed than I do just associating with many who also own the breed. When I find a stand up guy in these dogs...I can usually find a damn good dog that person is feeding! Quality people usually demand the most quality out of what they are responsible for.

[Frank43]

If we hold ourselves to the same standard as we want to hold these dogs.....then we would all be superhuman....Daily...I learn more from these dogs when I think of just the gameness of the breed than I do just associating with many who also own the breed. When I find a stand up guy in these dogs...I can usually find a damn good dog that person is feeding! Quality people usually demand the most quality out of what they are responsible for.

Its funny how that stuff works. I think the dogs and the owners feed off each other. Plus there are probably small things in the management of the dog that makes differences in how they develop. Lets say everybody wants to see what their dog will do. Do you rush them. Let a dog thats too much hit a dog with a puppy mind. Then he can't figure out why all the dogs come out shy and afraid of contact. They may not necessarily be curs but they were hit to young and their psychology ruined. Or if a younger pup shows good signs. What do you let pass. If they touch another pup and you break it up let them scratch you're giving them a taste that wont ruin them. All that probably goes into the ego of the man breeding and raising them. I think the dogs and owners vibe off each other. Did they rot on a chain before you rolled them or did they know you and bond with them. Did they walk. Did they have some strength and agility going into it? Do they know they man behind me cares about me, and has my back and do I want to kill this dog to keep it off him?

[bossman311]

The guy who goes thru each one of them is better IMO.
Some can get lucky and not have to cull as much therefor won't have hands on with as many.
While the one that goes thru each one will check each regardless & only base choices from seeing all regardless .