Bitework with bulldogs

[skip11]

I just started doing bitework with my 4 year old for fun and as an outlet for his drive. Still working on maintaining a calm grip and proper targeting. I feel like there's a lot of misunderstanding in the gamedog world that doing bitework is encouraging human aggression. That is definitely not the case. The dogs understand that this is a game. The intricacies and details that goes into bitework are amazing. It's a totally different when training a dog as a real protection dog (civil aggression) and training a dog for sport. It will look very similar to the untrained eye.

I am not a fan of real human aggression in the APBT as well. However, I'm fine with using them as a real personal protection dog as long as you're a super experienced trainer that knows what you're doing and the dog is balanced (clear in the head). Unbalanced and fearful dogs should definitely be not be used for breeding, sport, or ppd for that matter. I do think it's a myth that human aggressive bulldogs are culled as we see from history a lot of major studs and bitches that are HA are being bred as long as they proved themselves in the pit (Zebo, Honeybunch, Bolio, Chinaman, Haunch, Virgil, Bullyson, and the list goes on).

Anyone else is doing bitework with their bulldog?

[Oakgrove]

The myth or it not being a myth is dependent upon when the human aggression showed itself. As with Zebo, it started after he was deemed a good one. So he got a pass. If it showed months earlier he might have never been.

I have been lucky as I have only had one dog in all my years that showed human aggression. He had shown himself to being well on his way to being a good one. I had a kid who loved the dogs and since he gravitated to the dogs I had a 'zero tolerance' policy.

I have never had a problem with training game dogs for bite work. The majority of the tools needed to do bite work are inherently built in. The biggest problem with game dogs is that there are a couple hundred years of dog aggression built in as well. For some it is hard to get by that, especially because there is not a lot of places/clubs/groups that can provide completely isolated training.

Sort of like the shephard breeds. At some point there was a shephard sitting on a hill saying you are going to take this dog that will herd sheep, gather goats, push cows and make him into a man-stopping service dog? Yeah,right. A hundred years of selective breeding and then a sheep chaser is the finest protection dog in the world.

The tools were there for them. The tools are there for the bulldogs. Selection going forward would be the key.

But with that there will be a lot of obstacles in the short term.

[skip11]

Yeap I do agree if you got a fight crazy bulldog, it can be a problem. I do think with proper training it can be managed even though if a dog loves fighitng above all else it may be a lot more difficult. I think the issue with bulldogs when gripping is that they like to shake and chew vs herders that usually have a more full calm grip.

[Oakgrove]

The bites are pretty much the same across the board. The better ones give a full mouth bite but there are a lot of shephards that are hectic and shake and grip with the front canines too.

Like most everything it comes down to the individual dog, the bite game, like the dog game, there is not a lot of 'cookie cutter' consistency.

The few pitbulls I have seen were more petbulls but pitbulls the same, if that makes sense.

Maybe the best game dog owner/protection work guy I have met had dogs bred down from Hyde's Scratch/Miss Pool Hall Red/Snooty. In the early 2000's he had pedigrees I would drool over but those dogs came from game ass parents but they did high level protection work. But training was incredibly difficult as the owner would say his dogs got amped up when other dogs were working so getting them to focus and get back on track was one of the harder obstacles to clear. He also said other dogs had that issue too, but not to the level of his bull dogs, and not to the length of lack of focus.

It can be done. But with anything the level of difficulty will change from breed to breed but especially from dog to dog.

I am on the thought train that if it is there it is there and can't be covered or hidden but only managed. Sort of like a cur, with slick handling, a lot of mouth and great conditioning the cur in a dog can be hidden, sometimes forever. But a dog that has a hundred or so years of fighting dogs in his lineage, training will do nothing more than hide or cover or better said, manage the aggression issues.

And a lot like Murphy's law the aggression will come out at the most inopportune time.

With that bit of negativity being said, I am the biggest fan of dogs doing what they were bred to do or what they were trained to do.

[skip11]

I'm also curious, will dogs trained in bite work will bite better in the box since they've trained to bite calm and full? I've seen a dog that won't let go during springpole or tug of war sessions but won't really grab a hold in the box.