greatest producer of all time

[FrostyPaws]

I would put Jackson's Hank on that list. He produced 6 or 7 3xwinners or more in 5 breedings before he died in the prime of his life. Unfortunately, the only dog from Hank's production that really got anywhere, production wise, was Jocko. Without him being bred to the Yellow John bitches, he wouldn't be where he was either.

I would also vote for Tombstone for what he accomplished being bred to 7 bitches, and a line of dogs has revolved around him for decades. That line has evolved into the backbone of many high powered dogs even unto this day.

[Officially Retired]

Not that this has anything to do with production, but didn't Gr Ch Buck beat Yellow's multi-winning brother Gainey's JR?

Jack

[bolero]

ART

[EWO]

For me polls like these are apples and oranges. For every great thing Buck did there is a guy will tell you Frisco produced better. And everything Frisco produced is crap compared to Yellow. And there would be no reference to Yellow without mentioning Jocko. And then that guy in the corner will tell you about Redboy owning the game for thirty years. Too many opinions and most of those opinions are based on another person's opinion. I do agree, it is fun reading, but sometimes even fun reading is pointless. It is only a handful of people that personally witnessed these dogs, or even better, actually owned a dog right off them. But there are thousands that will tell you adamantly which is better and why the other is crap.
And as I climb down off the soapbox, I will join the masses. I like Bolio and Redboy. Mostly because some of my best dogs were heavily bred from both of these dogs and then crossed. Since Redboy did not make the list I would vote Bolio 1 and Yellow 2.
And thirdly. I like it when there are explanations behind the choices. Makes for more fun and pointless reading. EWO

[sam i am]

Eli

[EWO]

Like posted several years ago some of the most pointless conversations/threads are the most enjoyable.

I'm still in the Red Boy Bolio camp but I'd like to throw Snooty in there too.

Maybe the question should differentiate between the performance of the direct off spring and the line as a whole?

Tips the scales a bit.

EWO

[apeman]

Like posted several years ago some of the most pointless conversations/threads are the most enjoyable.

I'm still in the Red Boy Bolio camp but I'd like to throw Snooty in there too.

Maybe the question should differentiate between the performance of the direct off spring and the line as a whole?

Tips the scales a bit.

EWO

Best producer of all time is entirely subjective, but "most influential sire" may be a better poll as you have look at in terms of lines as a whole.

[Norm87]

I definitely agree with most of what you said about Buck other than him being bred less than the other choices as Eli was bred far less than any of them including Buck. As far as which was the best producer out of them it will depend on whether where going by percentage of quality individuals produced or overall impact on the breed as a whole whole. If going by the latter I’d say Eli no question due to the amount of lines/families that were built off the Eli/Boudreaux family of dogs

[EWO]

And then I will add another variable on overall impact or winning matches?

Overall impact from the poll I would go with Yellow because he was down out of Red Boy and a Hank bred Jocko dog. I would lean toward Yellow because those first Jocko-Red Boy dogs were hard mouthed, rough, durable and all night game, just dumb as a stump. Affectionately referred to back then as dumb ol' Jocko-Red Boy dogs. From there with the addition of the Bolio (Hollingsworth) we get to the Mayday family (which may need to be on the list as well). So if we start with Yellow the number of wins has to be higher, or at least as high, as any one dog out there.

But if I went with over-all impact to the game which would include winning matches, selling puppies, and puppies bought just to be bred to sell more puppies the list gets very short and Red Boy becomes a no-doubter. There are no lines out there in the last forty years that sell puppies like Red Boy. A "pure" Red Boy puppy will sell faster than any other line out there regardless of the parents nor the owner of the dog. There are tons of 'pure' Red Boy dogs out there that, just like their entire six generation pedigree, has never seen the box but kept someone's brood pen full at every given opportunity.

At the same time there are lots of people who work their Red Boy dogs but seldom are they successful when they are pure or even heavy.

Then factor the Red Boy family crosses well with just about anything. Jocko-Jeep-Eli-Bolio-Snooty-RBJ-Mayday. Just about anything.

Over all impact my vote would be Red Boy but he did not make the list. From there I would vote Yellow.

Great topic.

EWO

[State Bull]

I would roll with Yellow and Bolio. Both are good choices. Both are Dibo/Colby based. You add Buck blood and you have great results!