Excellent veiws Jack.....that's a read all beginners need to read
Excellent veiws Jack.....that's a read all beginners need to read
I've seen some severly injured dogs counted out while scratching and have heard some fools call them curs because the were counted out trying to get across.
How can you in good conscious count out a dog that is scratching.
Thats why I prefer Cajun Rules. In a nutshell rule #11 states that a dog must start across the moment the referee say release, (Hesitate and lose. Don't hesitate and continue). Simple as that.
http://www.sporting-dog.com/select-p...ajunrules.html
Last edited by STONEWALL; 02-24-2012 at 11:26 PM.
Originally Posted by STONEWALL
It's a damned shame the thoughtless stupidity that some truly game, truly wonderful dogs have to endure in this sport. Would lick an owner to death, would sleep at his feet, would protect him at night while he slept, would die to prevent him from harm, and will fight as hard as they can ... until they just can't get across anymore ... and the mindless bozo will just toss him over the wall and plug him as a "reward" because he can't be bothered with the aftercare for a "loser" ... just makes me mad every time I think of it.
Jack
Thank you.
Great views from everyone, and I completely agree with Jack, the word "cur" (as well as the word "game.") are tossed around way too much, without any thought behind the meaning. Like these are the only two words that CAN be associated with our dogs. Reminds me of this quote. "Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end, we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that will ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten..... every year fewer and fewer words, and the range of consciousness always a little smaller." It applies not only to our dog community, but to society in general, sadly.
And why is it that people always put a time on gameness ?
What do you mean exactly?
game tested 30 minutes = game
going over the hour in pull = game
why? stupid... sry, uneducated right jack
I agree "proven gameness" isn't a function of time, per se, but yet I do believe a certain amount of time has to elapse before you can call a dog game.game tested 30 minutes = game
going over the hour in pull = game
why? stupid... sry, uneducated right jack
For example, I rolled Stormbringer with Gusto back in 1999, and Stormy was on a down dog within fifty seconds, immediately shot deep in the windpipe, and by 0:02 (yes, TWO minutes) I had to get Stormy out of there as he was choking Gusto TF out. The Gusto dog would literally have been DEAD in less than five minutes. I tried them again, and it was the same thing all over again. Gusto was kind of a scrawny dog, whereas Stormbinger had the most awesome body strength of any dog I have ever seen, and when you put the two together it was just an utter blowout.
Now, when separated, Gusto screamed and screamed and screamed for more ... but could I really call him "game" because he was still going berserk after a 0:02 roll ... even though I don't think he would have lived much longer than that?
Interestingly, Gusto later won GIS in :44 over a son of Eliiot's Six Bits, and then he lost DG in 1:58 to Roadblock (winning another GIS), so in point of fact the dog was a proven DG dog ... but to call him as such over his getting steamrolled by Stormbringer would have been a joke.
So, yes, SOME amount of time has to pass for a dog to properly be called game ... which will have to be enough time to show 1) a certain amount of fatigue, 2) a certain amount of abuse, and 3) a certain amount of time being continuously dominated. Another example, I put Icon with U-Nhan-Rha, and both dogs went a fast-paced 1:10 off the chain with each other ... but I really don't think either dog was game-tested here either. Why? Because they both had GREAT natural stamina and, though fairly tired by that point, neither dog was really all that tired. They were simply two PROFESSIONAL MACHINES, and so I stopped it because I had seen all I needed to see to rate these dogs as having World Class Ability and Stamina ... but (even though they went over an hour) I cannot properly say they were "tested hard." By contrast, I have picked up short-winded dogs in :25 - :30, and declared them "pretty game," because they were so freakin' tired that they were at the point of heat stroke ... and were spotting weight and behind the whole time, trying as fiercely and hard as they could, but just couldn't do anything besides lose and get dominated the whole way.
So, no, time doesn't necessarily prove a dog's game ... but, yes, enough time has to elapse to where the dog gets beaten, dead-ass-tired, and dominated the whole way (without a bad move) before you can call a dog game. A still-fresh dog, no matter how injured, cannot be called "game" ... whether he went an hour or just because he got shipwrecked and "still acted good." A certain amount of utter fatigue must be present IMO.
Jack
i have to dissagree with a dog who quits on top being a cur because that dog was not acting cowardly because he had nothing to fear to me a dog like thaat lacks the desire to finish not the will to win, because in his mind he already won, he sees no need to scratch because he kicked that dogs ass already
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