Western Rules

[TFX]

Here is a set of rules that I authored 7 or 8 years ago since nobody could ever agree as to what Cajun Rules actually were. I have seen everyone decide "Cajun Rules to govern", and then see enormous contention as a result. These are refined on a version of Cajun Rules, with many of the loopholes closed. I have not seen anything better. Unfortunately, these rules never gained the popularity for widespead use, although all who read them thought they were better than anything we had at the time. Friends of mine in the east and south who bemoaned the fact that no sponges and bucket were mentioned got a little concession out of me on that one, so it was included in a revision.

Western Rules

1. A place is to be agreed upon to hold the contest at the time a match is made. Size of the pit is optional, sides must be at least 2 feet high, and scratch lines 12 feet apart.

2. A referee who has knowledge of the rules, and is agreeable to both parties to be selected before the match proceedings begin. The referee may also act as the timekeeper, or may delegate this responsibility to someone else. Each handler will select a second to assist him.

3. All money, and a forfeit amount is to be presented to the referee prior to the dogs being weighed at a date and hour previously agreed upon. A certified test pea should be provided so that a scale can be properly adjusted. The referee will then select, and prepare a scale on which the dogs may be weighed. The referee will have the final decision on matters pertaining to weighing the dogs. If either dog is over the contracted weight, forfeit money is to be paid to the party whose dog is on, or under contracted weight immediately. If both dogs are over the contracted weight, no forfeit shall be paid to either party. A new agreement can be made, and the show continued under either of these circumstances.

4. After dogs are weighed, a coin toss will determine who shall wash first and have selection of corners. Each party should furnish two clean towels and a newly wrapped sponge to wash with. The referee will oversee washing activities, and may search the people named to wash the dogs. Requests may be made through the referee to have either side roll sleeves to show bare arms while washing and or handling the dogs at any point throughout the contest. Each side will wash the opponents dog while being observed by the dogs owner or designated representative, and the referee. The person from either side who is called upon to wash a dog may wipe the dog’s body before using soap, and then use the sponge to wipe inside of the dogs mouth unless both sides are against this. If any dog is found to have a poison or rub on any part of him, the opponent will be declared the winner on a foul. Dogs are then to be washed in soap and water. After the first dog is washed, he will be carried to the pit by a representative of the opposing party, and then presented to the handler at the pit. He must wait in the pit for the other handler to arrive with the referee. During this time, he will only be accompanied by a representative from the opponent’s side, as the referee is still with the dog being washed.

5. The referee has the responsibility to ensure that no dog is given an unfair advantage throughout the weighing and washing activities. If any foul play is observed, either side may appeal to the referee to call the match at once, and the party who is victim to the foul play awarded the full purse of the contest.

6. Coin toss winner will also have selection of corners. His corner is to be declared when he enters the pit with his dog. Both parties will then immediately go to their corners. At that point both dogs will be shown with full head and shoulders between the handlers legs. The referee will then call out after 5 seconds “Release your dogs”. The handlers must never push or shove their dog forward, and all 4 feet must be on the floor when at the scratch line. The handler may not leave their corners until the dogs are together and at least one dog in holds.

7. Handlers will then watch the dogs for a turn. A dog that has turned his head and shoulders away from his opponent, regardless of circumstance has committed a turn. The handlers will appeal to the referee to allow the turn. A handler may call a turn on his own dog, or his opponent’s dog in order to get the scratching started. The referee will either allow, or disallow the turn.

8. If a turn is allowed by the referee, he will order the handlers to pick up the dogs free of holds from that point forward. Both handlers must make attempts to handle their dog when free of holds. Either party can appeal to the referee to call the match on a foul when the opposing handler is refusing to handle his dog at any point in the match after the first turn has been allowed.

9. After the handlers have gotten their first handle free of holds, both dogs will then be taken to the same corner where they started, and faced towards the wall. The referee will then begin a 25 second count before ordering the handlers to face their dogs. (If both parties agree, the sponges used for washing may be kept in a bucket of water and be tossed to each corner by the referee. Both handlers must toss the sponges back prior to the 25-second count.) When the dogs are faced they must be shown with full head and shoulders as they were at the beginning of the contest and all 4 feet on the floor. At thirty seconds, the party whose dog committed the first turn will be ordered to release his dog for the first scratch of the contest. A ten count will then begin to count the dog out. During those ten seconds, the dog must go across and take hold of his opponent.
A handler can release his dog any time after the command is given to the scratching dog. He must release his dog however, when the scratching dog takes a mouth hold. The other dog cannot complete the scratching dog’s scratch by making contact, as the scratching dog still must take a mouth hold of his opponent regardless of when the opponent’s dog was released. Handlers must remain in their corners until the scratch is completed, or the match may be called on a foul by appeal to the referee.

10. After the first scratch is completed, the contest is now a scratch in turn, handle free of holds contest. When the dogs are free of
holds, they are to be handled immediately, and the dogs scratched alternately until one does not complete his scratch. It will have been determined in advance if this is a Scratch to Win, or No Scratch to Win contest. In a No Scratch to Win contest, the match is over when one dog fails to scratch, and his opponent is declared the winner. In a scratch to win contest, after one dog fails to scratch, the opponent’s dog must then complete a scratch to win. If he does not, the match is declared a NO CONTEST, and purse money returned to both sides.

11. If neither dog has made a turn and they are out of holds, an out of
holds count of 10 seconds will commence immediately by the
referee. The dogs are then ordered to be handled by the referee,
and the bottom dog is to make the first scratch. If he completes his scratch, this begins a scratch in turn, handle free of holds contest. If he does not complete his scratch, the other dog must scratch to win, even in a no scratch to win contest. If he fails to complete his scratch, the match is then declared a NO CONTEST by the referee. The only time dogs can fight to a DRAW, is when both handlers agree to pick up game dogs and both dogs scratch.

12. If either dog becomes fanged (tooth hung up on his own lip) the
handler may appeal to the referee to have the dogs parted when
the dogs are in a neutral position. The dogs will then be parted,
and the dog unfanged. The dogs will be released 2 feet apart, in the
center of the pit, to resume the contest.

13. Nothing will be allowed over the wall of the pit, unless agreed upon
by both sides and allowed by the referee. Anything entering the
pit that is not approved will be cause to call the match on a foul.

14. Handlers are allowed to encourage their dogs by voice, hand
clapping, or any other reasonable means. It is not permissible
to use outrageous behavior to spook the other dog or act
without sportsmanship toward the other party or his dog
at any time during the contest. Handlers are not allowed to
deliberately block his opponent from handles. This can be
called as a foul by the other party and the fight declared by the
referee.

15 Any dog that jumps the pit wall will be declared the loser with no further scratches necessary. No dog is required to scratch to a dead dog.

[turkd3000]

not a lot room for the bs in there.i like

[STORMY]

not a lot room for the bs in there.i like

Turk3000,
my thoughts are the same

[TFX]

Thanks guys. What I tried to do when I wrote these is maintain the original intent of the Cajun Rules, while clarifying the points of contention with every show I had ever seen or been a part of that went sour, or every situation people I know had experienced with funny business.

[Officially Retired]

Okay, very nice. I have a few points I'd like to clarify, so let me go through these ...

[TFX]

We'll see if I remember! It has been a long time since I wrote these, or have even looked at them. There were a few rounds of scrutiny from some very active dogmen in different parts of the country before I got them to this stage.

[Officially Retired]

Okay, here is my rundown on the Western Rules you were kind enough to provide:

Rule 1: Clear

Rule 2: I would amend to saying the referee should be agreeable to both parties right at the beginning, before there is a contract at all, rather than "before the proceedings (match) begin."

Rule 3: Very well said. The only thing I would amend to Rule 3 would be to state that all money/forfeit, etc. has to be in the ref's hands a week prior to the event. That way you don't waste everybody's time getting to a show ... only to find that one of the dudes doesn't have the money.

Rule 4: I would add to Rule 4 that any false, implanted, or filed teeth are considered a foul/DQ.

Rule 5: Clear.

Rule 6: Clear.

Rule 7: Clear.

Rule 8: Clear--and good rule.

Rule 9: Interesting deviation from the original rules. The original Cajun rules state that a dog must start at once, and not stop inbetween, even for a second, or he loses then and there. In other words, a 1-count is a loss. A dog who trots over, stops, then starts again to complete a scratch loses the moment he stops for a second, etc.

Rule 10: I would change Rule 10 to say, if neither dog scratches, the contest is a DRAW (not a "no contest"), as a contest did take place ... where each dog stopped the other.

Rule 11: Clear, and good rule, but again, I personally think if two dogs quit it was still a "contest," and a "draw" (which means no winner). For example, suppose two dogs go at it and give blood and heart for 2:40, and both stand near-death. There damned sure was "a contest," and it was absolutely a draw, because both dogs stopped each other. It is a contest and it deserves to be in the record books as such. By the same token, when two handlers agree to pick up, the dogs were just picked up still game. In other words, the dogs decided on the draw when they both stopped, while the humans decided on the draw when they pick up their still-willing charges, and both were legit contests. IMO, a "no contest" would be like (for example) the cops come mid-show and so no legitimate result could be determined. (Only something like that should not have to be put against a dog's record. The other two need to be recorded, as they happened by legit events inherent to a match, and a true final outcome was legitimately made.)

Rule 12: I personally believe the dogs should be unfanged while still in holds. One of the biggest bullshit tactics is to say, "My dog's fanged!", when a dog is in a bad spot, just so the dog can be rescued and have a fang-check done. If anyone has a tape of the old Gr Ch Texas versus Gr Ch Joey fight, you will see Roadblock pull this bullshit tactic to save Joey's ass time-and-time-again. Texas was actually whipping the daylights out of Joey on the head, out-wrestling Joey, and keeping him out effectively. And every time Joey went down, Roadblock would scream, "My dog's fanged! My dog's fanged!", and Kirkland never said shit. And every time they would rescue Joey's ass out of a bad spot ... separate them about 2' ... and then Joey would always nail Texas in the chest on the release ... and Texas would have to pull him out. And Texas did pull Joey out, over and over again, but Joey had a helluva mouth ... and after Roadblock used this tactic ABOUT TEN DIFFERENT TIMES, "My dog's fanged! My dog's fanged!" (no shit, at least 10x this happened), Texas was finally wounded so bad Joey could now get to him ... and so Texas wound up losing that deal. It is my firm belief that, if this bullshit tactic hadn't have been employed, that Gr Ch Texas would have whipped Gr Ch Joey. It was that free 2-foot scratch, repeated over and over, which got Joey into the fight ... without which he was getting hopelessly-outclassed. So I absolutely disagree with this false "separation" due to a fang. The dogs should be unfanged in holds, and if they can't then that is just too damned bad for the fanged dog.

Rule 13: This needs some clarification. When you say "nothing" should be allowed over the wall, that has to be clarified as meaning from the participants. Otherwise, some jerkoff in the audience (who's got a $5K bet he's about to lose) can just throw a beer can in there and save himself.

Rule 14: Clear and I agree 100%.

Rule 15: Clear.

What do you think?

Jack

[TFX]

Good feedback overall.

I think it is a really fine line to put forth a set of rules that is adaptable to the needs of so many complex situations that arise, and getting them so detailed that they end up not beng followed.. These rules are a good attempt at that. I will offer some commentary on each point of your feedback Jack.

#2. In general, I think your suggestion is certainly a best practice, but in reality many shows go down knowing that qualified, reputable people will be pitside that can serve as a mutually agreed upon referee. In fact, not knowing who it is before hand may in and of itself prevent foul play in some cases. I like leaving it open, because invariably if you do not, this will be a point that fanciers deviate on anyhow.

#3. Again, certainly a best practice, but perhaps not always feasable as a "thou shalt" type of rule.

#4. That is actually good input, with which I strongly agree. I would be in favor of amending the rule to add that.

#9. I know what the original Cajun Rules said in reference to a count, but in the scores of shows I have attended, nobody actually uses the rules that way. In general a full 10 count is given for the dog to go and mouth the dog. This is one of the many points that needed clarification in a revised set of rules.

#10/11. I know what you are saying with these two, but "Draw" simply means too many different things in today's world. Two dogs that sniffed each other's asses simultaneously at the 15 minute mark could be a "draw", just like the two who went deep and then stopped. Yes, a contest took place, but not one where gameness was the hallmark of the contest. It was my intent at the time to distinguish between dogs that quit (no contest) and game dogs that under a few possible circumstances did not win or lose, but left the show with the honor of a game dog. In reality, I do not think we can change the semantics of the fancy, so I probably should modify that. At the time I wrote those I felt strongly about a distinction between quitting draws and game draws.

12. I agree with not abusing the system ( I saw the aforementioned show), but I think for safety of the handlers fanged dogs need to be parted. "Referee's decision is final in all matters" carries a lot of weight and perhaps should be added to ths set of rules in Rule 2. In your example, a good ref should call BS, but then again if there is no protestation from the other handler, why should he?. Certainly the other handler has an obligation to his charge to safeguard him from getting pummelled needlessly. This example you presented Jack is a matter of good and poor handling, "unfanging" was merely the vehicle that was used.

13. Why? nothing means nothing unless it is permitted. I see what you mean about a third party gambler though. Perhaps getting rid of the foul piece altogether helps, but then again so does adding "referee's decision is final in all matters". Clearly judgement needs to be utlilized about what the intent of an unauthorized something coming into or leaving the pit.

Overall, I feel like these rules go a long ways to clarify things not covered in the several sets of rules that are called "Cajun", and also promote spotsmanship and fair play beyond any others I have seen.

[evolutionkennels]

#2. Agree with JAck
#3. Agree with Jack
#4. Bite should be inspected by the match BEFORE the show by the Ref with opposing party present. If opposing partner sees something fishy (filed teeth, fake teeth, etc, then he should tell the refeeree right there before the show. The opposing party can't see the fake tooth, then do the show, and when he sees he's not going to win, decide to call him on it.
#9. I agree with TFX
#10. I agree with Jack
#11. I agreee with JAck
#12. I say that the handler should try to UNFANG twice while in hold. If not, the referee can try to unfang, if the referee cannot do it in hold, then seperated.
#13. A referee to give a warning for something MINOR. I liked the way M.A.D. and B.Bailey would say before a show, "We're gonna let the dogs decide this one. No minor Bulllshit foul is gonna save anyone."
Also, The original Macho would shoot across so strong and fast that he was literally close to flying out of the box with the other animal and handler. In that case, if he had made contact with the other dog, you would toss them both back in the box.

[TFX]

More good input from Evolution. I actually think I wrote these about 9 years ago, (it was before I moved to my current place). The sum and substance of what we are looking at; with a little minor tweaking, is a set of rules that would govern the pit dog game much more efficiently than anything we have had in recent times. I believed that when I took the time to write these, and I still believe it today. At that time, my partner had a very active pit in the west. We were also involved with the key players internationally in some of the hotbeds of activity. It was our hope to get these rules out there and in use. A few things happened, and they never really caught on. I am far from any activity today where I could promote their use.