Originally Posted by Blackfoot
VERY NICELY PUT JACK AND I PRAY ALOT OF US INCLUDING ME CAN LEARN FROM THIS METHODOLOGY!!!!I DEFINITELY SEE YOUR INSIGHT!!!
I've done this a few times and yes it works. It beats bringing the dog down a lb a week and sometimes the dog doesn't make weight or lose strength. Have your dog be 2 lb over his best weight, work him down to pit weight within 2 weeks and keep him there. The longer i have him at his best weight the stronger he can develope throughout his keep. I know some people will start out with beef then switch to chicken a couple weeks out but i'll start out with chicken and end with chicken. I won't change his diet and risk running hot. If he does good thoughout his keep, keep it that way to the end is my motto.
I personally don't understand this premise of bringing a dog down a lb a week. If you're actively trying to get a dog shown, the dog should be, AT MOST, 2 lbs over his agreed upon weight before the show is even set in stone. If a dog doesn't make weight, it's because the owner called the wrong weight. It has nothing to do with the dog as that is strictly human error. If the dog is weak, again, that is strictly human error due to any number of things.
I will say that I agree in that there is zero reason to be changing the diet a couple of weeks out. I personally don't think it's going to make a dog run hot, but I also see zero reasoning in doing so.
Great minds think alike.
George Armitage used to condition his dogs this way, I believe his keep is in the book "30 years with fighting dogs".
I'v always wanted to try his method of bringing a dog up in weight, but just never got round to it.
I can't imagine losing the required fat and muscle, to be under weight, being very good for a dog throughout the rigors of its conditioning process.
To me, it makes much more conceptual sense to have the dog right about where he needs to be, just a couple pounds over, and that gradually through conditioning, he is primed to be at his absolute best weight for the day of the show.
Even being @ pit weight isn't good for a dog for a long stretch, it is a brief window that needs to be taken advantage of, and then the dog needs to put on weight again. So I can't imagine it being good for a dog to go through an entire keep UNDER pit weight ... and then to have the fight of his life at pit weight (which weight itself should only be touched on briefly).
Jack
A dog should be brought down to weight, not under and back up. I agree with Jack.
Here's an important element to consider in terms of conditioning. Danny Burton, one of the greatest conditioners of all time and a understudy to Earl Tudor himself, said it best. You have to believe there are only two things that will stop your dog. Heat and the inability to breath. To get a dog to the cardiovascular level required, you cannot do so properly, or in a healthy manner, with the dog below his best strength levels. You can bring one down and increase cardio capacity, but not the other way around.
It doesn't matter the athlete. The training is done for ONE SINGLE EVENT. It's not done for anything other than that. I point this out to validate Jack's point that optimally, a conditioner is trying to have their athlete at PEAK CONDITION for that day, that time and for the required time needed to win. After that, it's back to a less stressful lifestyle. Training for anything is very stressfull and can only be done for a short period of time because no matter the objective, it is extreme and no one or nothing can live "extreme" every day of it's life.
The old man Jack makes reference to is a great example. The secret to his success is picking a good athlete and OUT WORKING his opponent. Nothing fancy at all. One of the better dogmen in Texas bases his entire keep around hand walking. Burton based his on what he called a "coyote trot". He believed when a dog could get into that "coyote trot" for hours, he was good to go. He used a cat mill more than anything.
Burton told me one time, and I love this b/c so many people have a different perspective on things, but he said, "Hell son. I ain't here to find out how game my dog is. I'm here to see how game your dog is"
To clarify b/f someone jumps on it, I do know there are more than two things that can stop a dog, but as a dogman, believing in his stock, you have to believe, as any coach of any athlete, that the only things that can stop you from winning are the things YOU control. These are the only things we can address anyways. Therefore, it should be a belief system so you yourself are conditioned to train around anything and everything that can beat you, within your control.
This is all one can do anyways. More simply put, don't beat yourself!
Well fellas, these last few posts have just highlighted the reasons why i'v never got round to trying that method, and after reading those posts I most likely never will.
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